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[Maul_Junior]

Just what the title says.

just finished setting up a more defensible Trade Depot. Trying to see how defensive I can make it.

[NullForceOmega]

Yes, all traps block caravans.

[PatrikLundell]

NullForceOmega is partially correct. All traps block WAGONS, while pack animals have no problems with traps.

My standard way is to use a winding path for wagons, as invaders typically rush straight ahead:
- Dig a 3 tile wide path with a ramp up to the surface at the outer end.
- Build a drawbridge at each end of the tunnel.
- Dig 7 tile long, 3 tile deep niches on each side of the tunnel. The niches should be offset so one starts just beyond the middle of the one on the other side.
- Set up a three tile long row of traps across the original tunnel at each place a niche starts (except at the ends, where it would block off the tunnel). This should leave a 3 tile wide path for wagons that winds past the traps.

[Maul_Junior]

NullForceOmega is partially correct. All traps block WAGONS, while pack animals have no problems with traps.

My standard way is to use a winding path for wagons, as invaders typically rush straight ahead:
- Dig a 3 tile wide path with a ramp up to the surface at the outer end.
- Build a drawbridge at each end of the tunnel.
- Dig 7 tile long, 3 tile deep niches on each side of the tunnel. The niches should be offset so one starts just beyond the middle of the one on the other side.
- Set up a three tile long row of traps across the original tunnel at each place a niche starts (except at the ends, where it would block off the tunnel). This should leave a 3 tile wide path for wagons that winds past the traps.

I'm not good at abstract visualization. got a screenshot?

[PatrikLundell]

I don't do images. You'll get ASCII instead:

WWWRRRWWW
WWWBBBWWW
WWWbbbWWW
......WWW
......WWW
......WWW
...CCCWWW
.........
.........
.........
WWWCCC...
.........
.........
.........
...CCCWWW
.........
.........
.........
:
:
WWWCCC...
WWW......
WWW......
WWW......
WWWbbbWWW
WWWBBBWWW



W = Wall
R = Ramp
B = Bridge, "hinge" part
b = bridge, rising part
C = Cage trap
. = Open floor
: = Repeat the pattern above until satisfied (or running out of embark space)

You can obviously mirror both the top part and the bottom part, or built it above ground. The entrance to the surface is at the top, and the trade depot below the description at the bottom. Obviously, there are walls to either side.

[Bumber]

Could you abuse ramps to make a more compact design? IIRC, wagons can move up certain setups that normal units can't (without climbing.)

[PatrikLundell]

I've heard it said wagons (which I assume includes the animals pulling them) can move up/down via unusable ramps. If so, you should be able to have a trap less 3 tile wide passage with a row of ramps one tile away from the "outside" end of the tunnel and with dug out tiles to the sides of that ramp array (to make all 3 of them unusable). Guards, merchants, and animals carrying goods would have to go through a difference entrance that could be trapped to hell and back (well, not literally, in DF's case...).

Enemies seem not to jump down holes unless there's something to attack in view (such as a stupid visitor merc doing a random walk search for a way to leave). To cater for that you should probably have a drawbridge to cover the "entrance" hole when no wagon using caravans are due.

Personally I'd rather have another usable entrance and trap it. That entrance is the first one to be closed on a siege, though.

[Bumber]

How about:

  +++++++++++++++++
  +▼.............▼+
  +▼.............▼+   Z+1 (Wagons)
  +▼.............▼+
  +++++++++++++++++

+++++++++++++++++++++
...▲.+C+++C+++C+.▲...
...▲.C+C+C+C+C+C.▲... Z+0 (Traps)
...▲.+++C+++C+++.▲...
+++++++++++++++++++++

(Pluses are smoothed walls, not floors.)
You might need to add one U-bend in the upper area to deal with the occasional flier, if you don't have other plans to deal with them.

The problem with long, winding paths is that it takes away from trading time, and an out-going caravan can get stuck on an in-going caravan.

[PatrikLundell]

I guess that should work, although I don't see any reason not to fill the lower section with traps, as neither merchants, their guards, or beasts of burden have any problem with passing over traps. You could also make the top section into a raising bridge (or even an array of 3 horizontal ones) to force fliers to go through the trap filled bottom section at the pull of a lever.

I've never had any issues with caravan trading times due to passages (I've only made them to the edge of the map or an L shape, not winding in a spiral, but doubt it would delay the caravan too much anyway). The absolute majority of the time is taken up by hauling stuff to the trade depot to trade it just before the caravan packs up (which, like unloading, takes very little time). However, if you mod the game to get multiple caravans in the same season I don't know what would happen. Normally caravans enter the map around 6:th-20:th of the first month and ceases trading, packs up, and departs one month after entering the map, if my observations are correct.

[Bumber]

I guess that should work, although I don't see any reason not to fill the lower section with traps, as neither merchants, their guards, or beasts of burden have any problem with passing over traps.

The C's are all cage traps. Filling the area is a lot of extra work with mechanisms, when the enemy might just ignore a bunch of them and take a path over the triggered traps.

I don't know why I made them a zigzag. It started with S-bends and I cut out the corners where they were unlikely to walk. A straight line has the same number of traps:
+++++++++++++++++++++
...▲.+++++++++++.▲...
...▲.CCCCCCCCCCC.▲...
...▲.+++++++++++.▲...
+++++++++++++++++++++

Or you could use two rows and maybe they'd use both evenly due to crowding:
+++++++++++++++++++++
...▲.CCCCCCCCCCC.▲...
...▲.+++++++++++.▲...
...▲.CCCCCCCCCCC.▲...
+++++++++++++++++++++

[lethosor]

Somewhat late, but there are a couple diagrams at http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quickstart_guide#Traps, including the one described above.

[Maul_Junior]

I've personally solved this puzzle a while ago. I tend to build bridges across rivers and ravines containing rivers to catch wildlife, with cages at points that animals can crawl out of the river at its lowest points, too. The issue was with the bridge being blocked by traps, no caravan could get through.

However, I have since realized that despite seeing the traps creatures (and invaders) don't avoid the traps, and tend to move in the shortest line possiblee, usually into traps.

I could further exploit this by making a maze of cage traps for the caravan to get through, but is alll but guaranteed to catch anyone in the fort.

[Grand Sage]

A quick note to the OP: when in doubt, you kan check with the "D" key. it will mark all paths not accessible by wagons red (and the rest green).

[PatrikLundell]

A maze of traps won't catch anyone in the fortress, since they "know" about the traps and pass them safely. The only exception is menacing spike traps, which are triggered remotely, not by the creature passing. Visitors and caravan members also "know" about the traps, and pass them without triggering them. The only things triggering traps are wildlife (including sapient wildlife) and invaders (and trap avoiders avoid traps, strangely enough).