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Author Topic: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot  (Read 2037 times)

mikekchar

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2016, 07:32:39 am »

@amade one way you can see the effect of the problem is to keep all your goblets in a small stockpile that accepts bins.  Then make a workshop order that makes goblets with a condition that you have at most 1 available goblet.  As dwarfs take a goblet out of the bin and use it, it will trigger the making of goblets (as long as your manager is checking his list).  That's because the dwarf has a goblet and there are none available.  Over time, you *should* make exactly the number of goblets you need at one time and have one left over in the bin.  So if you only every have 10 dwarfs drinking at once, you should have 11 goblets total.

But suddenly, you will find that you have 12 goblets, even though nobody has moved the bin and they haven't all been in use.  And then 13.  And then 14... etc.  Eventually the bin will fill up (I think it can hold 60 goblets) and you will start putting goblets in a second bin.  At that point you will make no new goblets.

Goblets and toys are the worst, so I leave the goblets in the tavern coffer (which doesn't exhibit the same problem).  Toys are not allowed in bins (I'm a bad overseer-parent).
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anewaname

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2016, 01:22:28 am »

Tried a 43.05 test embark with 100 leather and 20 wood. Built 10 bins and 4 wheelbarrows, made a 10-square custom stockpile with bins (multiple tests... one with a custom stockpile and assigning leather to it after the bin arrived and one with a default leather stockpile. After testing, came to the conclusion
    a lack of a bin triggers a "bring empty bin" order
    an unfilled bin on the stockpile generates an order to "bring this list of items to that bin" where the list of items sometimes included items already on the stockpile.
    an empty square triggers a "get single item" order (saw up to 6 of these jobs at once and at the same time as the "bring bin/fill bin" orders)
So while the stockpile was filled quickly with individual items, the serial processing of the bins took a while to fill the stockpile. The bins were never lifted from the stockpile.

Then, made a custom stockpile and gave it 3 wheelbarrows and max bins. After the wheelbarrows arrived, set it to accept leather.
The wheelbarrows limited the "bring item to stockpile" jobs to 3 jobs and were used for "get single item" and "bring empty bin" orders to the stockpile but the "bring this list of items to that bin" order was completed by a dwarf picking up the items and carrying them to the bin that was sitting on the stockpile (seen a dwarf hauling pages of gems? this is why). The bins were never lifted from the stockpile.


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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

amade

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2016, 02:23:38 am »

I noticed that my dorfs are actually collecting multiple same type items that were scattered after I deleted a stockpile and then carrying it all in a single trip to another stockpile to put them into a bin. But I can't seem to replicate this reliably.

Here's a screenshot of an attempt to replicate it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anybody know what exactly governs this behaviour?

P.S. no minecarts or wheelbarrows were involved.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

anewaname

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2016, 03:17:34 am »

I noticed that my dorfs are actually collecting multiple same type items that were scattered after I deleted a stockpile and then carrying it all in a single trip to another stockpile to put them into a bin. But I can't seem to replicate this reliably.
An unfilled bin on the stockpile generates an order to "bring this list of items to that bin". Once the order is created, one dwarf will do it. The items are of whatever type the bin wants so if you deleted a "goblet" stockpile then he grabbed all goblets because that is what needed to be stored. There is probably some LIFO/FIFO or distance thing going on too so he might have grabbed those goblets together because they were all older. I would track him down and remove goblets from that stockpile. As the OP mentioned, goblets in bins are spammers.

I also ran a test embark with 120 turkeys and a pile of lumber for barrels. On a 150 square stockpile, the dwarves treated the food with barrels the same way they treated the leather with bins... filled all the empty squares with single items while doing the slow "place barrel"/"bring stuff to fill the barrel" process. They didn't move the barrels off the stockpiles at all. Not sure what they did in 43.03 anymore, but this is what they are doing in 43.05

I did not test stone pots.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2016, 01:46:46 pm »

A quantum stockpile is all very well, but forgive me: Doesn't it mean that things aren't able to be transported all-in-one-bin when you need them across the fort in a hurry? (For example when the traders have arrived and they have BOOZE!!!)
You can stick them inside a minecart - 8 1/3 times more than into a bin, and can contain things like prepared meals - and move that minecart however you desire.

You can even trade a minecart that is attached to a hauling route taking from your trade goods stockpile (and not dumping anywhere). Just be sure to make new minecart to replace it afterwards.

mikekchar

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Re: Goblets and Toys preventing movement of Finished Goods Bins to Trade Depot
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 08:23:10 pm »

    a lack of a bin triggers a "bring empty bin" order
    an unfilled bin on the stockpile generates an order to "bring this list of items to that bin" where the list of items sometimes included items already on the stockpile.
    an empty square triggers a "get single item" order (saw up to 6 of these jobs at once and at the same time as the "bring bin/fill bin" orders)
So while the stockpile was filled quickly with individual items, the serial processing of the bins took a while to fill the stockpile. The bins were never lifted from the stockpile.

Very, very interesting.  It is quite different than what I've noticed, but I admit that I haven't paid attention in a while.  I will have to play with this.
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