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Author Topic: [SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now  (Read 1352 times)

Fleeting Frames

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[SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now
« on: October 23, 2016, 07:48:19 pm »

I know of the "less than 3 caverns = not guaranteed adamantine" in DF2012, but I was thought it was fixed with DF2014 due being able to get single cavern worlds with it.

Apparently not, disproven by example with this 2 cavern world in 43.03:

Embark area has no adamantine:

(3x3+ should normally have adamantine, by wiki)
Parameters

Incidentally, there is one 1 tile to the west and 38 in that whole region tile, so it is not like adamantine is completely missing, just not as prevalent.

Up caverns to 3, and aboveground geography remains the same while providing 64 tubes in this world.

Probably a bug, but it does provide reason to run 3 caverns I guess (other than FBs/cavern populations).

Genned on Linux; seeking confirmation whether this behaviour mirrored in Mac and Windows as well?

Melting Sky

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Re: [SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2016, 10:44:03 pm »

As far as I know the actual game mechanics between the mac/windows/linux versions of the game are identical. I've never actually tested for this particular bug across platforms but I would be VERY surprised if there was a difference between platforms.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: [SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 04:00:45 am »

I've seen it as well AFTER having posted to someone who reported it that there should be spires on a 3*3 embarks according to the wiki. I'm not sure about the version, though. It was definitely at least 0.40.24, and quite possibly more recent than that.
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gestahl

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Re: [SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 09:25:19 pm »

As far as I know the actual game mechanics between the mac/windows/linux versions of the game are identical. I've never actually tested for this particular bug across platforms but I would be VERY surprised if there was a difference between platforms.

It may or may not have been "fixed" at some point, but there have been worldgen differences. I also feel like I've seen 3x3s with no candy cane in 3 cavern worlds rarely.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: [SPOILERS] Less than 3 caverns = less miracle poles, even now
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 07:52:47 am »

I suspect this isn't technically a world gen issue. As far as I understand, DF generates the 16*16 embark level tiles within a world map tile on the fly when needed, presumably based on an RNG seed somewhere (and that seed ought to be set during world gen). The embark level of 3*3 16*16 tiles per embark level tile is then generated at embark, and the process ought to the same for adventure mode. If that is correct, the missing spire issue is probably somewhere in this generation process, where spires somehow fails to be generated properly for particular combinations of seeds and cavern count.
A pure speculation is that there might be some connection to the issue with magma pipes being empty when embarks are aligned with the pipes in a particular way.

As far as I understand, there can be worldgen differences for the same set of seeds if the worlds are generated with rejections, and I believe it's been reported that 64 and 32 bit Windows currently can generate worlds differently from the same seeds even without rejections.
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