Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Are ramps broken?  (Read 574 times)

Spectre9000

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Are ramps broken?
« on: September 07, 2016, 02:47:56 pm »

My dwarves don't seem to use ramps after they initially create them. I don't understand what's going on. My embark has basically just failed because I channeled down creating ramps and my miners have now died of dehydration apparently despite having a brook and booze. My other dwarves won't go down and get the pick or do anything. They don't use ramps.
Logged

Slogo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are ramps broken?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 03:07:11 pm »

Ramps have a few requirements/restrictions to work. Mostly that ramps work like they do in real life. The wiki has a good explaination:

1. The space directly above the ramp must be open.
2. The ramp must have a wall next to it. [in one of any 8 directions]
3. The space above one of the adjacent walls must be open.

When the above three are met a dwarf can go from the open space above the wall next to the ramp onto the ramp tile below then on to any tile of the lower z-level that's open. Conversely they can go from any open tile on the level below to the ramp then on top of the wall with open space above it.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:Ramp

A picture of your fort & the ramps would be helpful in figuring out your exact problem. But the short answer is no ramps aren't broken.

Daris

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are ramps broken?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 03:12:07 pm »

My entire fort revolves around replacing stairs with ramps.  They aren't that tricky when you start to think of them for what they are: boards leaning against boxes that you can walk up to get to the top of the box.  If you don't have a box (a natural or constructed wall) against which to lean the ramp, nobody can climb it.  It leads nowhere.  It is just laying on the floor despite the ramp icon in the game.  But there also needs to be somewhere at the top a dwarf can go; if you lean a board with the top against the side of a house, nobody can use it because at the top you have the side of the house in your face.
Logged

Spectre9000

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are ramps broken?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 03:15:57 pm »

That's all well and good, except I have ramps next to walls. I actually have a series of ramps leading down.

WWW
.  .  .
R R R
WWW

. = open space
R = ramp
W = wall

I repeat that down about 4 z-levels, with the next levels of ramps being in the open space of the level above it.
Logged

Slogo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are ramps broken?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 03:21:53 pm »

Definitely upload your fort to the map archive: http://mkv25.net/dfma/ or post pictures then otherwise it will be tough to help. Also verify the usual suspects like burrows or locked doors/hatches.

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Are ramps broken?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 04:03:24 pm »

That's all well and good, except I have ramps next to walls. I actually have a series of ramps leading down.

WWW
.  .  .
R R R
WWW

. = open space
R = ramp
W = wall

I repeat that down about 4 z-levels, with the next levels of ramps being in the open space of the level above it.
(As per message that follows, actual uploded saves/map-pics will help, but...)

Assuming the above is a top-down view (not a slice), as I'm sure it is, there's ambiguity:
1) Are the ramps up-ramps (built/dug on that level) or down-ramps (what up-ramps passively look like when viewed from tje next level up?
2) Is that really open space (nothing on this level) or uncluttered ground (walkable floor)?
3) Are those actually walls, or wall-tops (again, walkable floors)?

I'm currently assuming the first example, in each case, in which case it won't work anything like I think you think it does.  But it is complex to explain (additional to prior explanation).

First, please let me take the liberty of rotating the assumed map-view:
W.RW
W.RW
W.RW

Now imagine rotating it down into the page, to view as side elevation;
....  <- air above
W.RW <- your Z-level
#?## <- the ground below

The "?" depends a lot on what the rest looks like.

Switching characters a bit to show you what I think you've done.
_  _ 'Wall top' flooring, there automatically
# /# Solid wall and a ramp
# ## Open space
# ## ...more open space..
#_## Bottom of excavation, with no access except by wall-climbing/falling in.
#### Undug terrain


What you want is more akin to:
_____  _
##### /#
#### /##
### /###
## /####
#_/##### <- Access to/from this layer is perfectly possible.
#######


Not that it needs to be in a line. You can twist it in a spiral (circling round a 2x2 area, each level switching 90 degrees from the one above).  But you first need to get your mind around the side-elevation, I suspect, before working out how to do that without causing other problems.
Logged