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[SyrusLD]

So, for (potentially) for a new fortress, I was modding the raws to allow all metals (except pig iron) to be forged into weapons/armor(/etc.) (except anvils).

This made me think ... why would anyone ever forge weapons or armor out of some of the available metals?...
I know pig iron is brittle and therefore not really something you'd make anything out of. So I decided to not make that available.

But ... I just wondered, would a platinum warhammer, the "non-plus-ultra" (?!) of blunt weapons usually only gainable through moods, realistically be useful?
I'm not sure about the properties of platinum, but wouldn't it be too soft to be useful as any kind of weapon material?


And last but not least ... I haven't played DF since 40. ... something ... but I read about damage to weapons and armor through combat-usage, is that a thing, and does material matter in the regard of how much damage to weapons and armor occurs?

[Girlinhat]

When you say 'realistically useful' it depends what you mean.  In real life?  Well there's a reason you never see those things.  Aside from the cost, many of the heavier metals are very soft, like lead, gold, and platinum, and don't make a good striking surface.  Steel and iron and bronze are useful for durability reasons, primarily.  While a platinum warhammer may technically be denser, it will also deform on first hit.  And cost more than a block of office buildings...

In Dwarf Fortress the criteria is different.  In the real world if you want a heavier hammer, you just add more steel, and now it's a bit bigger and a bit heavier.  But in DF weapons are a specific size, and then get their size multiplied by the material density, to get total weight.  So the only way to get more weight is to get a denser material.  Weapons in DF also don't deteriorate, so the soft quality isn't a problem, and thus platinum warhammers are viable.  Not to mention the cost of platinum in DF is relatively low - one or two really good shist mugs are worth more than enough platinum to make a warhammer.

Many metals still aren't good for bladed/piercing weapons either, because they are modeled as being soft, and they just can't penetrate armor.

Armor is another story though, as it does have durability and the value of armor is essentially armor_hardness vs weapon_hardness.  Platinum armor is very soft, and steel is very hard, so a steel sword will penetrate platinum armor quite easily.  MOST metals are useless for armor, as they're soft or brittle, and weapon metals can get through them.  On top of that, if armor is penetrated or beat on, it'll take damage.

TL;DR - you're given a list of weapon/armor metals available because they're the only ones that make sense.  The ones that aren't weapon grade by default, are disabled because they're too poor to be worthwhile.  The only good reason for enabling other metals is to produce high-value items, for trade or for putting in weapon traps to raise a room value.

[SyrusLD]

Well, what made me wonder how it all would perform is the list from the "Armor" Wikipage stating the following "rough preference" list for materials:
Adamantine, Steel, Pig Iron, Iron, Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, Platinum, Brass, Black Bronze, Billon, Rose Gold, Electrum, Bismuth, Aluminum, Gold, Copper, Tin, Sterling Silver, Silver, Nickel, Zinc, Lead, Nickel Silver, Trifle Pewter, Fine Pewter, Lay Pewter.

There're quite a few metals that are claimed to be better than Copper. Besides, who'd not want to use lead bolts, considering all the lead lying around all the time.
I would imagine a dwarf in Platinum armor, using a crossbow, to be more like a pillbox though, with all that weight he'll be unlikely to move much.


But yeah, I get the point.
I do like the idea of making fancy decoration weapons or armor...or seeing how well an army of gold-clad dwarves will do against an invasion!

[Melting Sky]

Armor does take wear and damage now and it is dependent upon the properties of the materials involved.

[vjmdhzgr]

When you say 'realistically useful' it depends what you mean.  In real life?  Well there's a reason you never see those things.  Aside from the cost, many of the heavier metals are very soft, like lead, gold, and platinum, and don't make a good striking surface.  Steel and iron and bronze are useful for durability reasons, primarily.  While a platinum warhammer may technically be denser, it will also deform on first hit.  And cost more than a block of office buildings...

In Dwarf Fortress the criteria is different.  In the real world if you want a heavier hammer, you just add more steel, and now it's a bit bigger and a bit heavier.  But in DF weapons are a specific size, and then get their size multiplied by the material density, to get total weight.  So the only way to get more weight is to get a denser material.  Weapons in DF also don't deteriorate, so the soft quality isn't a problem, and thus platinum warhammers are viable.  Not to mention the cost of platinum in DF is relatively low - one or two really good shist mugs are worth more than enough platinum to make a warhammer.

Many metals still aren't good for bladed/piercing weapons either, because they are modeled as being soft, and they just can't penetrate armor.

Armor is another story though, as it does have durability and the value of armor is essentially armor_hardness vs weapon_hardness.  Platinum armor is very soft, and steel is very hard, so a steel sword will penetrate platinum armor quite easily.  MOST metals are useless for armor, as they're soft or brittle, and weapon metals can get through them.  On top of that, if armor is penetrated or beat on, it'll take damage.

TL;DR - you're given a list of weapon/armor metals available because they're the only ones that make sense.  The ones that aren't weapon grade by default, are disabled because they're too poor to be worthwhile.  The only good reason for enabling other metals is to produce high-value items, for trade or for putting in weapon traps to raise a room value.

Weapons also get damaged from use, and lead was used in weapons sometimes. Like mauls, sling-bullets and gun-bullets. It's not as soft as gold or platinum.

[Girlinhat]

Compared to traditional weapon materials, lead is extremely soft.  And I wasn't counting ranged ammo, which enjoyed using lead often.

[Henry47]

Compared to traditional weapon materials, lead is extremely soft.  And I wasn't counting ranged ammo, which enjoyed using lead often.

Lead(and other soft but dense metals) makes far more sense for ranged ammo than melee weapons, as if it does not matter so much if it breaks/loses its edge, as it only has to be used once. 

[Derro]

Compared to traditional weapon materials, lead is extremely soft.  And I wasn't counting ranged ammo, which enjoyed using lead often.

Lead(and other soft but dense metals) makes far more sense for ranged ammo than melee weapons, as if it does not matter so much if it breaks/loses its edge, as it only has to be used once.

Also, a person is more likely to survive arrow wounds than sword wounds. Lead poisoning cuts down that chance a bit.

[wierd]

Remember, in the dark ages everything was smithed using a forge and a hammer. Not all metals lend themselves well to this arrangement.

Copper is a good example here. It work hardens quickly, and does not do well when impurities from the forge get into it between rolled layers.  It has to be heated in an annealing oven that keeps the soot and gasses of the coppersmith's fire from harming the metal, and must be returned to this oven often when being shaped with a hammer. Failing to do so, results in brittle, fractured metal.

Back to the general sense, girl in hat is correct. Most heavy metals are soft.  However, there are potentially clever ways around this if you have modern industrial techniques.  For instance, a heat treated and work hardened cast steel shell, into which the platinum is poured.  That gives you an implement with a mass much greater than solid steel, gives you a durable work surface, and if properly designed, will give you an interior chamber with support webs that redirect the energy of the impact such that it diffuses inside the softer interior metal, rather then deforming the shell.  That requires modern manufacture though.  I have yet to see a metal lathe or a manual metal mill as workshops in dwarf fortress, and I very much doubt that I ever will.