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[BurnedToast]

quote:Originally posted by Turgid Bolk:
<STRONG>I can't speak for BurnedToast, but I always thought it was exploity because "one seed" = one meal. Maybe the game uses some other unit for seeds (maybe there's really a handful of seeds per "seed"?), but it doesn't indicate this and I would think it would require a lot of seeds to make a meal. [ October 21, 2007: Message edited by: Turgid Bolk ]</STRONG>

Exactly.

Corn chips are different - you use up most the planet to make them, and getting the corn meal is the main purpose of growing it. Cooking seeds in DF right now nets you a full meal's worth of food from the plump helmet, PLUS another full meal (actually up to 3 full meals) from the seeds. it just doesn't make sense. I never really though about each seed representing a handful, or whatever, but it still seems quite off.

not only that but it's just so overkill, food is so easy to get it's like.. I dunno, making cavins on purpose to get more rocks. why bother?

[kuro_suna]

if would feel less like a exploit if dwarfs wouldn't choose death over anything resembling efficient container usage or dumping a barrel of snake venom (why do the dwarfen trader keep brining those).

[Joker]

quote:Originally posted by Entity:
<STRONG>I think the fact that a handful of seeds counts as one unit of food makes cooking seeds a bit of an exploit. But it's also a useful way of freeing up bags from the dwarven habit of trying to give every single seed its own dedicated seed bag, so I count it as a bug workaround.</STRONG>

Yes, without the Economy going (which is just too broken to use for now) there's no way to get rid of the massive seed surpluses that pile up. I don't cook alcohol, and I wouldn't cook seeds if I didn't have to in order to purge them, but for now it's a workaround. Sort of. You still end up with hundreds more than you need even if you try to make your Dwarves eat mostly meals made of seeds. You still have to brew, and grow plants to brew, and gathering plants leaves you with odds and ends of seeds you don't want to plant - the march of the seeds cannot be stopped!  

Perhaps the ability to chasm all items should be implemented without having to have the noble/economy for it.

[Btwilley]

When I get to many seeds I so what I do with anything else I want to get rid of.... "o" on the trade screen. Before an unfortunite lever mishap in my last fort I had a positive trade balance. I would essencally trade all crafts made in 1 year to the traders taking anything that they brought, then requesting everything I wanted at the highest %'s. (so I could pay more for more) It got a bit rough at hauling time, but it was generally 10 bins or whatever the weight imit was on their wagons each time.

And how about for a future fix let bins carry X weight not X items. For instance a bin weighs 10lbs, and it can total only weight like 250lbs. That way I wouldnt have 15 bins each weighing practically nothing, just because i ordered 15 bins to be made all at the same time.

[SnowWhite]

Thank you for writing this, Fedor!

[Fedor]

Thanks everyone for the comments and critiques!  I'll be posting up a corrected version of the guide in a bit.

 

quote:Originally posted by KotatsuNeko:
<STRONG>

Also fat, remember, which can be rendered into tallow for more food.  Nothing like roast tallow in the morning...

Also, you left out the (admittedly not very efficient) tactic of animal traps to collect cave lobsters, purring maggots, etc.</STRONG>

Good calls both.  Will be added (just got through testing purring maggots).

quote:Originally posted by KotatsuNeko:
<STRONG>I would say that the wiki should not encourage (maybe even mention?) the use of mods or utilities outside of a page reserved specifically for them.</STRONG>

For me, the wiki is where players go to learn how to play the game better.  Everything that contributes to this should be welcome - and cross-referenced - in that reference.  I see no reason to make a special exception to this principle for utilities.

quote:Originally posted by Reynard:
<STRONG>Something I've tried recently - I surround my kitchens with food stockpiles, and if there's a backup in hauling so that cooked food could start to go bad, I just deconstruct and reconstruct the kitchen. Food gets kicked out onto the stockpile pretty quickly as the construction jobs have huge priority.</STRONG>

A good point; workshop reconstuction is a very handy trick, and not just with food.  Will be added.

 

quote:Originally posted by Solara:
<STRONG>Admit it Fedor, this whole guide was just written as an excuse to show off your fortress.    

<STRONG>Cooking seeds is mentioned several times.. I feel this is a lame exploit, but more importantly it's not needed at all, ever. If you need to cook seeds (and/or alcohol) to feed your dwarves you are doing something wrong. Furthermore, cooking seeds results in small prepared meals, which take up more space.</STRONG>
I'll downplay doing this.

<STRONG>you should also mention dwarves trampling over food not in barrels will ruin it eventually, this is a bigger problem with prepared meals but even other food gets trampled eventually. also, food in barrels will never rot no matter where it is. </STRONG>
Will be added.

<STRONG>You might also want to include a link to the thread with puke's elephant factory, morulingtak (or something like that). I don't remember what the thread is called offhand but it should be easy enough to find. making the animals come to you actually works very well, and while it's a pain to set up you never really have to worry about food again once it is. it works just as well on maps without elephants - deer/horses/ musk ox, whatever - they all provide PLENTY of food.</STRONG>
I'll add more on hunting, slaughtering (and mention puke's elephant factory), and military raids for food.

<STRONG>Overall it's a pretty good guide, but I think you make it way, way, way more complicated then it needs to be. You overemphasize hauling micromanagement, which is just not needed and a waste of time in general. Also you can easily feed 200 dwarves off just plump helmets with no problems at all, everything else is just for fun if you want to mess with it.</STRONG>
Disagreed.  I see too many people chewing up dwarf time and effort like you would not believe just handling food.  Food doesn't have to be that way.  With a little setup, especially if you use the Dwarf Foreman utility as a labor-management tool, you can easily get better, more reliable, more interesting food and drink - plus free up lots of dwarves for other jobs.  This is the most important message in the guide.

[ October 23, 2007: Message edited by: Fedor ]