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Author Topic: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs  (Read 3109 times)

em1LL

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Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« on: May 19, 2016, 02:08:49 am »

Can I somehow assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs in taverns / temples / etc?

I don't see them in the corresponding menu:



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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 02:45:40 am »

No.
Naturalized citizens can be given any jobs *except* location ones. The reason for that is that all residence petitioners get allocated to a location with the same name as your fortress (which you can see, if you look at that location from the locations menu), and they can't be removed from it to be allocated elsewhere. Hauling, mining, leading squads,... are all available, though.
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em1LL

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 03:08:55 am »

No.
Naturalized citizens can be given any jobs *except* location ones. The reason for that is that all residence petitioners get allocated to a location with the same name as your fortress (which you can see, if you look at that location from the locations menu), and they can't be removed from it to be allocated elsewhere. Hauling, mining, leading squads,... are all available, though.
Ah, ok, thank a lot.
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ManaUser

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2016, 01:30:51 pm »

I still think this is a bug, unless someone can explain to me how it isn't. Especially since bards are the main category of petitioner you get currently. It makes no sense that you can't assign them to a tavern.
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ragincajun

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 12:02:15 pm »

Just to further this discussion...can you assign soldiers (acquired via petition) to a squad, give him armor/weapon and then station/fight with him?  Or do they just "do their own thing" when soldiering?
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No, they went to Hel, where they lead a bleak existence in cold and darkness. Valhalla is reserved for valiant warriors.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2016, 12:42:21 pm »

Yup, though iirc long-term resident warriors require a citizen to be leading them and won't ever become citizens themselves.

bmxbumpkin

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2016, 03:32:55 pm »

I can back up fleeting frames quote.  I have several Human militia and crossbowmen in my squads and love the diversity, and I have yet to see one petition for permanent citizen.  Bards on the other hand I have to turn down frequently and they clutter my taverns... :(
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2016, 03:58:48 pm »

Yup, though iirc long-term resident warriors require a citizen to be leading them and won't ever become citizens themselves.

On the other hand having two compatible members of the same species produce a baby will artificially add civilian members to your fortress, in order to circumnavigate too many mercenaries eating up all your rooms without enrolling.

The offspring will still have to grow up eventually but it will be a permanent member of your population (unless your current baby limit via dwarves is reached) with the full set of dwarven ethics and roles as per being born into that society plus any perks from that particular caste of intelligent being. Tall humans for instance, broadly being able to use two handed swords and other large weaponry.

Military procedures includes a lot of close contact anyway, so make sure they hang out as much as possible with each other via special training courses with their dwarven militia captain and spend lots of time on romantic 'date burrows' to pass the time is recommended.
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bmxbumpkin

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2016, 10:48:53 pm »

Really? Now I am confused, trying to find previous thread but I was under the impression that visitors, citizen or not would not breed.   I am confuzzled.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 02:43:47 am »

I think bmxbumpkin is thinking of the belief that invaders don't breed (I've seen it said in the past, and I haven't heard of anyone saying they've seen it happen).
Residents, at least, can breed (I've managed to get both parties of a married goblin couple to petition and produce a baby).

FantasticDorf's proposal is good in theory, but I doubt it works well in practice. I think to get a reasonable chance of producing offspring you really need to catch both parties of married couples. There are two reasons for my conclusion:
1. Only a fairly small percentage of visitors are unmarried, and a large percentage of those won't marry. For some reason performance troupe members seem to be more likely to be unmarried but willing than others.
2. I assume the same age restrictions for marriage that apply for dwarves are applied to other races as well, i.e. a +/- 10 year age span. Elves and goblins are "immortal", so you need a rather large pool to get matches. Humans, with their short life spans, are somewhat easier, but still, you need a lot of them, and point 1 makes getting a lot of them tricky.

I've seen the militia training hookup advice before, but it has worked extremely poorly for me. My experience is that militia members get very few acquaintances, and fellow militia members do not seem to be more likely than others. In fact, random visitors seem to soak up almost all "relation points", so citizens can live for years in the fortress with two pages of visitors listed on the relations list and only a rather small number of citizens.
Pre honeymoon suites have worked fairly well for me, though, PROVIDED at least one of them has the other on their relations list (and other pre conditions are fulfilled, of course).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 03:57:59 am »

That's a fair assessment. Good points on visitors already having marital ties, i overlooked that point.

I've never personally seen a 10 year age gap restriction in force, i wouldn't be surprised but i always put it down to compatible family goals and likenesses between dwarves as a foundation point for fast tracking marriage (my quickest was about 4 minutes at embarkstart). At most being 'lovers' instead of married is sufficient to roll the dice on pregnancy.

My proposed setup would be in the case of non training mercenaries, after checking their relationship statuses (and then summarily sending them on suicide missions unless they are too valuable to use) they will still experience socialise needs and reactions. So build a specific tavern (dry would probably avoid ration drunk poisoning accidents) for them to socialise in specifically. And in addition, assign them communal barracks sleeping arrangements with the two prospective parents stationed at two pushed together beds (because dwarves still socialise when asleep or some mumbo jumbo, double bed dormitiories are baby factories) with the captain's bed being further away.

Invaders are probably too busy trying to kill you to think about setting up relationships.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 07:11:39 am »

My understanding was that dorfs (and, presumably, all other civilized creatures), do not procreate out of wedlock (I assume they're far more careful about using condoms than RL humans, even when constantly ablaze with lust).

I've seen the shared bedroom advice before, but my attempts to practice it have always been complete failures (neither party recognizes the beard of the other after years of sleeping just beside each other).
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Can I assign non-dwarven citizens to performers jobs
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 07:52:56 am »

My understanding was that dorfs (and, presumably, all other civilized creatures), do not procreate out of wedlock (I assume they're far more careful about using condoms than RL humans, even when constantly ablaze with lust).

I've seen the shared bedroom advice before, but my attempts to practice it have always been complete failures (neither party recognizes the beard of the other after years of sleeping just beside each other).

My personal method is to use dormitories with no set sleeping arrangement for people without specific rooms so that any number of dwarves (seeming as they all tend to have roughly the same or close to the same trigger for tiredness) will rush to a bed forcing them to stay there if i am in need of children and have not enough people idling to 'do the task'.

Here is a small diagram, with the access points listed. Nothing besides the bed quality means anything in dorms and dwarves get a slight minor thought for using them. You could omit the outside beds entirely but its up to how much traffic it will recieve, dwarves will rush to the beds, rest up close to one another, giving time to bond.
 
 D  D
B+BB+B
B+BB+B
B+BB+B
B+BB+B
B+BB+B
 D  D


Just pushing people together who might not be compatible is probably going to be slow rather than just opening the opportunity up when they do eventually bump into each other naturally.
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