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Author Topic: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen  (Read 1643 times)

ChildServices

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Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« on: October 19, 2015, 01:55:56 am »

So I'm trying to turn the game into "Reptilian Polis". I've run into a few issues getting this pseudo-Hellenistic reptile man civilisation to actually breed in worldgen. They keep having terrible population figures and it leads to them losing their empires to other races through the game's inter-species "immigration" mechanics and not even actual conquest.
I'm not sure what I need to do to fix it. I don't know if it's an issue with the raws or if it's an issue with worldgen itself not giving them enough places to live. I've tried increasing the egg clutch size of the lizardettes, I even tried altering the homeowhateveritis (the thing that controls their body temperature) because I thought maybe taking a cave race and putting it on the surface might make all of them die from heatstroke or something (you never know with this game).


Spoiler: Entity_Default (click to show/hide)


« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:59:14 am by ChildServices »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 06:10:56 am »

It seems pretty solid to me, are you sure this is not just bad luck? 

You could try increasing biome support to 10.  You should not meddle with the homeotherm unless you know exactly what you are doing.

Do not bother raising clutch size however, world-gen does not support multiple births.
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ChildServices

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 06:33:22 am »

I changed EXCLUSIVE_START_BIOME to just START_BIOME and it fixed itself. Apparently making it EXCLUSIVE_ meant that they'd only place their first site? That's actually pretty useful to know for the future, though. Funny, I thought getting rid of WORLD_CONSTRUCTION:BRIDGE (whatever it was called) might've caused expansion problems but that was totally unrelated.
I might increase their site pop cap to 500 or something to slow down their sprawl now that they're actually growing so I can make them mirror the ancient Greek "polis" more.

I've got another question that's wholly unrelated to population now. Do I need to create noble positions for all of the various clerks that exist for the dwarves in fortress mode so that I can have a broker and an expedition leader or will the random generation that's used by the humans in adventure mode/worldgen cover anything I don't fill enough to be useful in fort mode?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 06:50:54 am by ChildServices »
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darkflagrance

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 10:43:50 am »

You should probably define them.
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milo christiansen

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 11:40:18 am »

AFAIK random positions will not work (properly) for playable races.
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sirvente

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 06:01:36 pm »

They're carnivores, carnivores don't work right in worldgen that's why Toady made it so Goblins don't eat. If you take [CARNIVORE] out they'll reproduce more quickly.
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ChildServices

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 10:00:57 pm »

They're carnivores, carnivores don't work right in worldgen that's why Toady made it so Goblins don't eat. If you take [CARNIVORE] out they'll reproduce more quickly.
I'll keep that in mind, but it doesn't seem to be too broken by just getting rid of EXCLUSIVE_START_BIOME.

Would I be able to replicate this system of government to work in fort mode as well as potentially in worldgen?

If not I've got my own model in mind to give the Reptilian Polis:
I was going to have one aristocrat (possibly two if that doesn't cause issues because I want to try and mimic Sparta in as many ways as possible), who is the fortress noble. At the start he is your expedition leader, but is replaced by the baron/count/duke and eventually the despot moves in.
There will be four elected archons who fill out the other roles, those being the Areopagus (law enforcement and exuctions), the Polemarchos (captain of the guard and champion, can also appoint 10 strategoi who can command 5-man squads and might also train lizards in the way of the hoplite), the Thereparchos (religion and chief medical reptile), and the Eponymous Archon (trader, accountant, and the manager and meeter of the workers).
All of these offices carry imperium, so you can put your Eponymous Archon in command of a squad if you really want to.


Edit: Okay. Here's what I have done.
Your LAW_MAKER and MILITARY_GOALS noble will always be the expedition leader/baron/count/duke, and he will meet with diplomats. He has an imperium of 10/10/15/20 (respectively).
You have five elected assholes officials that can each issue a mandate (may raise it to two if this doesn't make things as difficult as I think it will) but cannot make any demands, and they require a value 1000 office filled with 8 of whatever REQUIRESable items relate to their station. The Reptilian Democracy™ unlocks itself at 30 population. Only male reptilians are eligible for election. All positions are able to command a squad of five.
The five archons are named after a deity SPHERE (most of which are guaranteed to show up as gods for reptilian civs, particularly ORDER and WAR). These archons are:
  • Archon of Order: Responsibilities are LAW_ENFORCEMENT and EXECUTIONS (skill: AXE). Requires 2 weapon racks and 6 armour stands
  • Archon of War: Responsibilities are MILITARY_STRATEGY and BUILD_MORALE. Is required in order to appoint strategoi which unlock at 60 population (of which you can appoint a maximum of 10, they're just militia captains), and is also capable of commanding a squad of 10 instead of the 5 that his counterparts receive. Requires 6 weapon racks and 2 armour stands.
  • Archon of Wealth: Responsibilities are TRADE and ACCOUNTING. Requires 8 chests.
  • Archon of Labour: Responsibilities are MANAGE_PRODUCTION and MEET_WORKERS. Requires 4 cabinets and 4 chests.
  • Archon of Healing: Responsibilities are RELIGION (don't remember if that even does anything in fort mode) and HEALTH_MANAGEMENT. Requires 8 cabinets.
I chose to drop the silly ancient-Greek equivalent titles because it might be less readable for people who're less literate in these sorts of things. I may add a sixth or seventh archon depending on whether some of the other RESPONSIBILITY: tokens are applicable to fort mode or not.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 02:10:46 am by ChildServices »
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ChildServices

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2015, 04:51:31 am »




Ooookay. I embark and all of the nobles are available. That's not right, but I can fix that pretty easily I think. The main problem I want to talk about here is the fact that "Lavi Erastiskatatroposi" has somehow been elected to three different positions at once. Is that fixable or is that a side-effect of having multiple electable positions?


Edit: On second thought I actually don't want this fixed. I think it fits thematically.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 05:38:53 am by ChildServices »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2015, 08:46:26 am »

They're carnivores, carnivores don't work right in worldgen that's why Toady made it so Goblins don't eat. If you take [CARNIVORE] out they'll reproduce more quickly.

Carnivores do work fine, it is just that they remove any benefit they get from farming.  Carnivores work directly based upon biome support, if that is high enough carnivores are quite viable.
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ChildServices

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2015, 04:43:18 pm »

Carnivores do work fine, it is just that they remove any benefit they get from farming.  Carnivores work directly based upon biome support, if that is high enough carnivores are quite viable.


How high does this have to be? I started to test it and even with a biome support for ANY_WETLANDS of 10000 they still barely grow, if at all. Does it need to be done at the entity level or at the creature level (if that's even possible)?


Edit: How the hell do I restrict a position by gender? I've tried putting [ALLOWED_CREATURE:REPTILE_MAN:MALE] [REJECTED_CREATURE:REPTILE_MAN:FEMALE] [GENDER:MALE] in every single position but it won't work. Am I getting the arguments wrong?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 09:12:31 pm by ChildServices »
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2015, 06:19:53 am »

How high does this have to be? I started to test it and even with a biome support for ANY_WETLANDS of 10000 they still barely grow, if at all. Does it need to be done at the entity level or at the creature level (if that's even possible)?


Edit: How the hell do I restrict a position by gender? I've tried putting [ALLOWED_CREATURE:REPTILE_MAN:MALE] [REJECTED_CREATURE:REPTILE_MAN:FEMALE] [GENDER:MALE] in every single position but it won't work. Am I getting the arguments wrong?

The maximum Biome Support is 10 and it has to be done at the entity level obviously.  Try removing all vegetable food producing jobs from the entity as well, I do not know if this does anything but it means more folk obviously will end up as hunters/fishermen/animal herders, so perhaps more meat food to go round.  You will not end up with a large population, but you should end up with a population that is viable.

As for restricting position by gender, just take a look at the elves. 
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ChildServices

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 08:39:16 am »

It seems like my restrictions might work in worldgen and during play, but positions that unlock on embark are just randomly assigned to anybody.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Lizardmen not breeding in worldgen
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2015, 11:06:56 am »

It seems like my restrictions might work in worldgen and during play, but positions that unlock on embark are just randomly assigned to anybody.

What you do then is perhaps create an initial expedition leader equivilant title that is then replaced by the gender restricted title once the population reaches a certain size.
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