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[Alev]

Seriously, this is a thing.  Click it.

Yes, I saw that a few days ago.

[Draco18s]

Seriously, this is a thing.  Click it.

Yes, I saw that a few days ago.

Trying to get Mathig to look.

[fricy]

Paraphrasing someone else, why hasn't someone simplified this massive debate so that new players can find the current status on the issue? I mean most of the threads are morons flaming someone for bothering to ask the question. Sure, the last time someone asked the question a flame war happened, but starting a flame war to prevent a flame war is hardly logical.

Ok, You have a point there. There isn't a faq about it, just countless topics that the newbies are usually instructed to read when this comes up. And please understand that this and "why not multithread" comes up a lot, and the answer is always the same, and after the umpteenth time it's a bit annoying, that's one of the reasons for the flamewar...this week this is the 3rd time someone wants to beat the dead horse. damn, we really need a faq.

and wine:
No, virtualization is not the answer, especially not because the number one reason for fortress abandonment is fps death. virtualizing, starving the game of resources will make that worse. And no, there is no 100% efficient solution, that's a myth.
And if I understand right what you propose it has been already accomplished, it's called dfhack. there are lot's of UI tweaks that come with it, practically any memory structure can be manipulated/overwritten/whatever...IF you have the skill and the patience to figure out how to do it.You can think of it as an unsupported/unofficial API that tend to get broken with every new release.

[Mathig]

"Trying to get Mathig to look."
I looked at it the first time and mentioned it directly in my post. Aside from my comment concerning it, it is irrelevant.

Paraphrasing someone else, why hasn't someone simplified this massive debate so that new players can find the current status on the issue? I mean most of the threads are morons flaming someone for bothering to ask the question. Sure, the last time someone asked the question a flame war happened, but starting a flame war to prevent a flame war is hardly logical.

Ok, You have a point there. There isn't a faq about it, just countless topics that the newbies are usually instructed to read when this comes up. And please understand that this and "why not multithread" comes up a lot, and the answer is always the same, and after the umpteenth time it's a bit annoying, that's one of the reasons for the flamewar...this week this is the 3rd time someone wants to beat the dead horse. damn, we really need a faq.

and wine:
No, virtualization is not the answer, especially not because the number one reason for fortress abandonment is fps death. virtualizing, starving the game of resources will make that worse. And no, there is no 100% efficient solution, that's a myth.
And if I understand right what you propose it has been already accomplished, it's called dfhack. there are lot's of UI tweaks that come with it, practically any memory structure can be manipulated/overwritten/whatever...IF you have the skill and the patience to figure out how to do it.You can think of it as an unsupported/unofficial API that tend to get broken with every new release.

Virtualization does have one flaw, and you named it. However it illustrates precisely the fix we need. The fix is to replace Dwarf Fortress's menu system, and map system, with a new map and menu system. The new one having better GUI, obviously. If Stonesense works as described, that proves the map can be overhauled. It literally is a map overhaul, and apparently it relies on DFHack which is even better. All that remains is the menu interface, and guess what? Dwarf Fortress runs entirely off keyboard inputs. That is where virtualization comes in. Or, more specifically, virtual key strokes. If building a masons workshop requires the input command b-w-m then so long as you can send Dwarf Fortress a virtual b-w-m independent of the actual keyboard, you can program an interfacing software that allows players to access the menu in a more fluid, natural, clean setting.

This, is where WINE comes in. WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR. Wine converts inputs(well rather it converts outputs directed at the Operating System, but it demonstrates my point) from a windows system to a linux system, and consequentially doesn't use a massive amount of overhead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software) There is also the example of Botting and Macro software. These software types often convert single keystrokes into multiple keystrokes. For example, ISBoxer is a multi-boxing software that allows players to manage dozens of separate EvE programs simultaneously with the same effort as one program. The problem, is that I, personally, didn't develop WINE or ISBoxer, or any other virtual keyboard input software personally. So where-as I know it will work, I don't know what code is needed. Something like /send keystroke('b') dwarffortress.exe but the devil is in the syntax. It probably be best found by locating the developers of WINE etc. and asking them. Or I could open up WINE (which is open-source) and look around for it myself.

I guess I'm just hoping that I'm not the first person to think of this, and that someone is already way ahead of me and about to release the alpha version, so I don't have to do research. Or maybe that I might find enough support to have someone else solve it for me. Do I have any volunteers? Or am I not only the first person to think of this, but the first person to think of this who has any motivation to do it. -sigh- I'll add it on my list. Thanks all! Your motivational speeches really work... *grumble grumble*

[Draco18s]

"Trying to get Mathig to look."
I looked at it the first time and mentioned it directly in my post. Aside from my comment concerning it, it is irrelevant.

You mean aside from being exactly what you want, you mean?

You're not getting the semi-open source Thing you want.  Deal with it.

[Jiri Petru]

Can we please leave the same old, same old open-source discussion?

Not only you won't ever get open-source, you don't even need it to create a better interface. In fact, I believe we already have all we need to create complex UI overlays. See this thread.

[Mathig]

You mean aside from being exactly what you want, you mean?

You're not getting the semi-open source Thing you want.  Deal with it.

Trolls be trolling, enjoy the sewer water under that bridge!

Can we please leave the same old, same old open-source discussion?

Not only you won't ever get open-source, you don't even need it to create a better interface. In fact, I believe we already have all we need to create complex UI overlays. See this thread.

Literally I JUST...

I guess I'm just hoping that I'm not the first person to think of this, and that someone is already way ahead of me and about to release the alpha version, so I don't have to do research.

THANKS YOU. Now, someone go post this, and a link to the actual download for the latest version of StoneSense in the FAQ under the FAQ "Why is the interface so bad, when is it going to be updated?" Then we can finally put an end to this cursed endless rabbit hole. I sought; I found. Why not make it easier for those that come after? Unless we want MORE of these threads...

By the way, someone should still utilize all the information in this thread here to modify the utility most recently mentioned. I don't know, whereas it might be a great proof of concept, I'm not to certain its the perfect end spot.

[Jiri Petru]

I'd love to modify whatever but I can't code anything. I can write simple scripts if I'm told how to (like I've rewritten the Mouse Fortress menu) but that's about it. But yeah, otherwise I think a new UI overlay is very possible.

[Zarat]

"Trying to get Mathig to look."
I looked at it the first time and mentioned it directly in my post. Aside from my comment concerning it, it is irrelevant.

Paraphrasing someone else, why hasn't someone simplified this massive debate so that new players can find the current status on the issue? I mean most of the threads are morons flaming someone for bothering to ask the question. Sure, the last time someone asked the question a flame war happened, but starting a flame war to prevent a flame war is hardly logical.

Ok, You have a point there. There isn't a faq about it, just countless topics that the newbies are usually instructed to read when this comes up. And please understand that this and "why not multithread" comes up a lot, and the answer is always the same, and after the umpteenth time it's a bit annoying, that's one of the reasons for the flamewar...this week this is the 3rd time someone wants to beat the dead horse. damn, we really need a faq.

and wine:
No, virtualization is not the answer, especially not because the number one reason for fortress abandonment is fps death. virtualizing, starving the game of resources will make that worse. And no, there is no 100% efficient solution, that's a myth.
And if I understand right what you propose it has been already accomplished, it's called dfhack. there are lot's of UI tweaks that come with it, practically any memory structure can be manipulated/overwritten/whatever...IF you have the skill and the patience to figure out how to do it.You can think of it as an unsupported/unofficial API that tend to get broken with every new release.

Virtualization does have one flaw, and you named it. However it illustrates precisely the fix we need. The fix is to replace Dwarf Fortress's menu system, and map system, with a new map and menu system. The new one having better GUI, obviously. If Stonesense works as described, that proves the map can be overhauled. It literally is a map overhaul, and apparently it relies on DFHack which is even better. All that remains is the menu interface, and guess what? Dwarf Fortress runs entirely off keyboard inputs. That is where virtualization comes in. Or, more specifically, virtual key strokes. If building a masons workshop requires the input command b-w-m then so long as you can send Dwarf Fortress a virtual b-w-m independent of the actual keyboard, you can program an interfacing software that allows players to access the menu in a more fluid, natural, clean setting.

This, is where WINE comes in. WINE IS NOT an EMULATOR. Wine converts inputs(well rather it converts outputs directed at the Operating System, but it demonstrates my point) from a windows system to a linux system, and consequentially doesn't use a massive amount of overhead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software) There is also the example of Botting and Macro software. These software types often convert single keystrokes into multiple keystrokes. For example, ISBoxer is a multi-boxing software that allows players to manage dozens of separate EvE programs simultaneously with the same effort as one program. The problem, is that I, personally, didn't develop WINE or ISBoxer, or any other virtual keyboard input software personally. So where-as I know it will work, I don't know what code is needed. Something like /send keystroke('b') dwarffortress.exe but the devil is in the syntax. It probably be best found by locating the developers of WINE etc. and asking them. Or I could open up WINE (which is open-source) and look around for it myself.

I guess I'm just hoping that I'm not the first person to think of this, and that someone is already way ahead of me and about to release the alpha version, so I don't have to do research. Or maybe that I might find enough support to have someone else solve it for me. Do I have any volunteers? Or am I not only the first person to think of this, but the first person to think of this who has any motivation to do it. -sigh- I'll add it on my list. Thanks all! Your motivational speeches really work... *grumble grumble*

I just wanted to add quickly that there's a major misunderstanding of what virtualization is in this thread. WINE is simply a re-implementation of Windows libaries on Unix-based systems. There is no overhead to WINE, because it boils down to just adding Windows libraries on Linux. WINE is not an emulator. Wine is not virtualization.

There is actually very little overhead of x86-based virtualization, because most processors these days are sold with virtualization features enabled. But there would be no gain to running DF in a virtualized system.

What you seem to be talking about is simply catching keystrokes and mouse movements and passing them through an additional layer which translates them into the canonical DF commands, which is basically no overhead at all. That's not virtualization or emulation either, though.

[Nopenope]

I for one am a huge fan of zwei's mock-up. Ssetting up an UI like this through DFHack is likely to be a huge pain in the butt, though.

[Bumber]

Bumber gestures!
The thread shudders and begins to move!

Posting this here for relevance:

For example,

Avron Zeronozada
Male, 126
Married to Obakhekh Otoderozera, 2 children
Fishery Worker, Proficient Fisherdwarf
Civilian, Striker
Dreams of creating a great work of art.
Owned Objects: 10
No rooms.

"I'm doing alright".


Instantly I know he needs a job change to an art profession, should be assigned a larger bedroom because of his family size, and all of this replaces the main profile page, which presently, following 'most logical format possible', is...



Your eyes slide off this black space -every time- you are on your way to another screen in the profile. How many times have you selected a dwarf to see how many rooms he's assigned? How many times was this page just a pop-up box to be dismissed on your way to the personality profile? Which, most logically, should be shown here?

[Tristan Alkai]

I have some ideas, but if anyone wants a mockup then I will need instructions on how to post images to the forum. 

[Draco18s]

I have some ideas, but if anyone wants a mockup then I will need instructions on how to post images to the forum.

http://postimage.org/