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[natemiddleman]

Nickle should have the [ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_AMMO] tags (same as silver). Without the weapon tag, nickle can't be used to make mechanisms or corkscrews. Considering nickle is the least valuable magma safe metal, I think it should definitely be the default metal you should go to for magma safe stuff if it is available. Plat, Iron, and Steel already have other main uses anyway and wouldn't reduce the need for them. Not sure how this would affect combat, but I can't see nickle being better than steel.

IRL nickle alloys are used for high temp applications where steel or titanium can't be used so it only makes sense that nickle is used for magma control.


Note: I already mod my game to have this anyway, but I think it should be in the base game.

[Meph]

Nickel is too soft for these applications. Toady tries to keep it historically accurate, no one ever made nickel weaponry. It'S a good suggestion seen from a gameplay-value view, but not when it comes to realism.

[cata2k]

Nickel is too soft for these applications. Toady tries to keep it historically accurate, no one ever made nickel weaponry. It'S a good suggestion seen from a gameplay-value view, but not when it comes to realism.

>Realism
>Dwarf Fortress

TBH I would like to see more uses for some of the low-value metals like nickle and lead, too.

[Bumber]

Nickel is too soft for these applications. Toady tries to keep it historically accurate, no one ever made nickel weaponry. It'S a good suggestion seen from a gameplay-value view, but not when it comes to realism.

From what I can tell it's much harder than silver:

Code: (Silver) [Select]

Young's modulus   83 GPa
Shear modulus     30 GPa
Bulk modulus      100 GPa
Poisson ratio     0.37
Mohs hardness     2.5
Vickers hardness  251 MPa
Brinell hardness  206-250 MPa

Code: (Nickel) [Select]

Young's modulus   200 GPa
Shear modulus     76 GPa
Bulk modulus      180 GPa
Poisson ratio     0.31
Mohs hardness     4.0
Vickers hardness  638 MPa
Brinell hardness  667–1600 MPa

[natemiddleman]

Um ... Nickel is actually harder than iron slightly and the shear strength is only slightly less than iron. It is way better than silver in both regards (which already has these tags). It is denser than iron and therefore heavier, but there is no real reason it wouldn't make a good weapon.

Nickel is often found as nickel-copper and has been called fake-copper and white copper and has been used in weapons historically.

[cata2k]

Nickel is too soft for these applications. Toady tries to keep it historically accurate, no one ever made nickel weaponry. It'S a good suggestion seen from a gameplay-value view, but not when it comes to realism.

From what I can tell it's much harder than silver:

Code: (Silver) [Select]

Young's modulus   83 GPa
Shear modulus     30 GPa
Bulk modulus      100 GPa
Poisson ratio     0.37
Mohs hardness     2.5
Vickers hardness  251 MPa
Brinell hardness  206-250 MPa

Code: (Nickel) [Select]

Young's modulus   200 GPa
Shear modulus     76 GPa
Bulk modulus      180 GPa
Poisson ratio     0.31
Mohs hardness     4.0
Vickers hardness  638 MPa
Brinell hardness  667–1600 MPa

You da man. Lead should also be able to be used in blunt-type weapons. Hammers, spiked balls, ect.

[AceSV]

I think the real problem is that pure nickel was not even identified until the 1700s, but it appeared in the alloy paktong, which is essentially nickel silver.  Even though pure nickel and alloys like ferronickel, nickel steel, cupronickel or AgNi should be plausible, these are all very post-industrial in real world history which I think has made Toady prefer not to put them in. 

I'm not sure exactly why.  I know nickel doesn't have a particularly high melting point, but it might release poison fumes when extracted.  I know that the top modern producers of nickel are places like Australia and Canada which never had knights in shining armor, but I don't know if nickel was particularly rare in countries that could have used it (and China has nickel, and they had some incredible metallurgy).  Although nickel is "hard" it might also be brittle.  Glass is very "hard" but not flexible, thus it shatters.  Nickel might be too shatterprone to be useful as weapons or armor. 

I use cupronickel in my games, the formula is somewhere in this topic:  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140645.0  I've never really tested the 3 materials against each other, but I think cupronickel is comparable to bronze and iron.  I would use ferronickel and AgNi, but I can't find satisfactory accounts of their material properties. 

[natemiddleman]

I think my original intent is being misunderstood. I want Nickel to be used for mechanisms and corkscrews. This just happens to require the weapons tag to do it. If he doesn't want Nickel weapons, he could change the game to require different tags for weapons, mechanisms, and trap components. Adding the weapon tag would just be much easier, and in my personal opinion, would not adversely affect the game. Iron, Bronze, and Nickel would all be fairly similar with Steel the best and Copper the worst.

I can understand your point about Nickel not being discovered until the 1700s, but since it is in the game, it should have a use. I feel similarly about the other metals such a zinc and lead. At least tin is used for bronze and glazes. Nickel just seams like the easiest one to make useful by allowing it to be used for magma control.

[AceSV]

Magma is actually not that hot.  Copper melts at 1900F, most magma is 700-1300F. 

I've been doing more research into why nickel wasn't discovered until so late in history.  Apparently, nickel ores look a lot like copper and iron ores and usually have copper and iron in them.  So ancient or medieval metallurgists occasionally used copper or iron that had traces of nickel in them without knowing it.  In fact, meteoric iron has quite a bit of nickel in it, and we know that the earliest iron artifacts were created from "nickel-rich" meteoric iron. 

I'm also not sure if Nickel could really be directly extracted with medieval smelting technology, as it seems to require a lot of chemistry.  I think a more realistic approach would be to extract Cupronickel or Ferronickel from ores directly, instead of nickel itself.  Then combine Cupronickel with Zinc to make Nickel Silver or Ferronickel with pig iron to make Nickel Steel.