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[Artarda]

Basically, once a Urist McSwordsdwarf becomes Urist McSwordmaster (or any of the elite weapons skills that are natural to dwarves), he would be eligible for a military-version strange mood. He would then go to a barracks and begin performing his mood. When he is done, he will have created a new unique combat technique/special move.

This would also be able to tie in the planned development features of combat styles, stances, tactics, techniques, special moves, etc.

Techniques (special moves) would be perfected by a military dwarf with a strange mood. Once perfected, he has the ability to teach his fellow comrades the technique, should they meet the criteria. These Techniques could also be made in world gen, by great warriors and historical figures, etc.

I figured the best way to explain the way they would work, would be similar to an engraving or a piece of dwarven art. Hell, combat is the Dwarfiest art, right?

A sample of a technique could be this :

Erlindastot, "The High Sword"

This is a sword technique of legendary skill. It is a counter-attack used against armed foes. The technique consists of a parry, followed by a wild slash to the head. It was perfected by Urist McSwordsLegend at Boatmurdered in 1050.


Basically, it would have a weapon requirement, and a skill requirement in that weapon skill. Some techniques would be harder to perform than others. It would then have a technique type, be it Counter Attack, Feint, Disarm, Disorient, or Execution, or whatever Toady wanted to add.

After that, it would have a target. So far I can only see combat techniques working on enemies that a dwarf would have previously killed. Armed Foes could be a replacement for any weapon wielding humanoid, be it elf, human, goblin or other. This could also be interchanged with particular races, but I think most techniques that work on an elf work on a goblin as well.

The main part of the technique is the series of combat moves it uses. In adventure mode, you can do a technique in succession (i.e., parry on turn 1, then head->wild slash on turn 2), but the upside of mastering a technique is that both moves can happen simultaneously. That legendary swordsdwarf is so good, he just parried and chopped your head off before you could react.

It obviously would need balancing, either techniques could only be mooded by the most skilled of dwarfs (maybe Urist McAxelord with 37 goblin kills?), or add another parameter, like "is most effective when <foe> attacks <bodypart>, the only problem being that eventually we'll get that story of "Urist McAxelord perfected Alakalak, the Abbey of Abbeys, a legendary axe skill. It is a counterattack for Elephants. It is most effective when an Elephant bites at the right eye. It is a dodge followed by a quick slap to the third toe, left foot."

I think that it would be an interesting mechanic to add to the game, and would give those legendary dwarves in the military some sort of aspiration beyond just being good. Any thoughts?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Would there be anything for the player to do during this mood? Right now, moods serve to increase tension as the player has to keep an eye on moody dorfs and intervene if necessary before he goes insane and starts smashing stuff.

It's interesting, but it seems like a bit of a waste of the trainer/teacher, knowledge and scholarship features which are being added if a dorf can invent new techniques in a couple of days of 'mooding'.

[StagnantSoul]

Seems a bit too gamey, which is somthing Toady generally avoids. Interesting idea, however.

[Artarda]

Well the idea is that only a dwarf who attains near impossible status as a warrior, with a long kill list, would be able to even create a new technique. Like I said earlier, it would have to have some sort of balancing...

Maybe a live captured enemy for the technique to be practiced on, and you get legendary insanity tantrum if you can't get one? Huehuehe

[cdru]

Well the idea is that only a dwarf who attains near impossible status as a warrior, with a long kill list, would be able to even create a new technique. Like I said earlier, it would have to have some sort of balancing...

Maybe a live captured enemy for the technique to be practiced on, and you get legendary insanity tantrum if you can't get one? Huehuehe

Of course,if target of technique is humanoid or generic,captured enemy could be replaced by friendly soldier.

[Artarda]

Well the idea is that only a dwarf who attains near impossible status as a warrior, with a long kill list, would be able to even create a new technique. Like I said earlier, it would have to have some sort of balancing...

Maybe a live captured enemy for the technique to be practiced on, and you get legendary insanity tantrum if you can't get one? Huehuehe

Of course,if target of technique is humanoid or generic,captured enemy could be replaced by friendly soldier.

Although that would make it a little less fun, I could totally see it as a use for all the prisoners we might end up with once dwarves get more rowdy from the Tavern Arc update.

Perhaps to counter this strange mood's lack of materials, it instead uses a large amount of time, perhaps a whole season. Also, some prerequisites could be: extensive kill list (30+?), at least 15 kills of the same type of creature, is a Hero, has not yet entered a strange mood before as a crafter or such.

But like I said, this addition could happen with the other combat updates listed on the Development page. I'm not sure how common the Devs want Techniques or Special moves to be super commonplace, but I could see a large world with a long history generating a long list of martial techniques, especially by Humans, who IIRC, value martial prowess.

Another thing I thought would be cool is for combatants to learn their enemies' techniques, based on the learners student skill, observation, etc... If Urist McSoldier defends his fort for 10 years of consecutive goblin raids, and the lashers always attempt a particular feint-disarm combo, he might pick up on that? Just a thought to add complexity to the combat.

[Zammer990]

I just love the possibility for these to be so terrible;
This is a sword technique of legendary skill. It is a counter-attack used against armed foes. The technique consists of a parry, followed by a precise slap to the first finger, left hand

Every time Urist McChampion comes up against armed foes, woe upon their fingers. There isn't a good way to ensure a technique is actually useful: It'd be more interesting to see if repeated patterns of movement result in a kill, and dwarves repeating past actions, as a kind of Darwinistic learning, although the way combat works currently, going for the most likely to hit limb often works better than executing a set of attacks, because missing, and new parrying, is so good at preventing hits (excluding slaps to the tongue, which always hit their mark, for all the good it does).

[Naryar]

Techniques shouldn't be done as strange moods, no.

What they should be is part of the civilization's military culture, and be passed from the legendaries to the recruits.

As for how they are created... random chance of a technique being created by two or more weapon masters sparring ?

Set weaponmasters to search for new techniques ?

[Mel_Vixen]

Well we have martial trances and such already, why not lump moods for techiques into it. This way we always can loose the dwarf and the technique before the dwarf calms down & retreats/wins.

[Witty]

I like the concept of techniques, but I don't like the whole tie in with pseudo-moods. As other have said, it's pretty gamey. Moods are a special exception, and even those are getting a long due overhaul in the near future.

I'd imagine that techniques could come from a wide range of sources. Maybe have some sort of research field where different civs could become more focused on particular weapons and create unique techniques from there. Individual weapon masters could certainly create their own techniques as well I suppose, but I'd rather have it act in a more emergent fashion. I could however see a system where a dwarven god of war imparts a chosen warrior with some divine inspiration - maybe after performing a particularly heroic or violent deed.

But as Zammer mentioned, there's a more a likelihood in getting useless silly techniques than anything remotely effective. So some measures would have to be put in place to insure that techniques intended to kill are actually lethal.

[Artarda]

Techniques shouldn't be done as strange moods, no.

What they should be is part of the civilization's military culture, and be passed from the legendaries to the recruits.

As for how they are created... random chance of a technique being created by two or more weapon masters sparring ?

Set weaponmasters to search for new techniques ?

See, the only problem I see in that is that societies would end up with tons of techniques. I figured strange moods would help so that we dont end up with 500 combat techniques before world gen finishes.

I like the concept of techniques, but I don't like the whole tie in with pseudo-moods. As other have said, it's pretty gamey. Moods are a special exception, and even those are getting a long due overhaul in the near future.

I'd imagine that techniques could come from a wide range of sources. Maybe have some sort of research field where different civs could become more focused on particular weapons and create unique techniques from there. Individual weapon masters could certainly create their own techniques as well I suppose, but I'd rather have it act in a more emergent fashion. I could however see a system where a dwarven god of war imparts a chosen warrior with some divine inspiration - maybe after performing a particularly heroic or violent deed.

But as Zammer mentioned, there's a more a likelihood in getting useless silly techniques than anything remotely effective. So some measures would have to be put in place to insure that techniques intended to kill are actually lethal.

Also, swordplay and combat with melee weapons in general, in reality, utilize techniques to gain combat advantages,  be it stance, striking techniques, feints, etc.. I dont see the gameyness because in reality, people discovered swordfighting techniques and utilized them in combat. Strange moods would just be a way to keep the numbers low and give them some meaning. Obviously the qualities would differ; I would much rather have an artifact native platinum throne adorned with yellow diamond and sapphires than a green glass trumpet - the same as say a parry - execute combo over a slap to the fourth finger nail, left hand.

[kontako]

I could imagine this being tied in with the developing behaviours of scholars ingame. As in, rather than the swordsdwarf creating a randomised attack, such as what Zammer990 said, the dwarf would create a detailed treatise on combat which could be studied by your military dwarves to increase the rate at which they develop certain military based skills. Either this or it could behave as an alternative to training in the barracks when your military is off season.

In my opinion the type of artefact a military dwarf produces would depend on their type of mood. To me it makes more sense that, say, a possessed military dwarf produces some great weapon while a secretive military dwarf produces the treatise.

[Artarda]

I could imagine this being tied in with the developing behaviours of scholars ingame. As in, rather than the swordsdwarf creating a randomised attack, such as what Zammer990 said, the dwarf would create a detailed treatise on combat which could be studied by your military dwarves to increase the rate at which they develop certain military based skills. Either this or it could behave as an alternative to training in the barracks when your military is off season.

In my opinion the type of artefact a military dwarf produces would depend on their type of mood. To me it makes more sense that, say, a possessed military dwarf produces some great weapon while a secretive military dwarf produces the treatise.

I would like to see what you said, but perhaps as a separate mechanic. Scholars who focus on Military works, and Purple Heart Dwarves that are too injured to continue military service could perhaps become scholars themselves and study the arts of war, which could in tern be used to teach the recruits and soldiers to give them additional military training. Of course, there would have to be changes to the "Heroes" of the fortresses, IIRC once a dwarf reaches Grand Master in a weapon skill they can't be taken off the military, or something similar to that.

I don't think that scholarly work would be the best way to teach Techniques, however, because techniques are learning through experience rather than abstracted or theorized. Sure, we could have Urist McBookworm sit in a hall with his fellow scholars and contemplate good Execution Counter Attacks, or we could have Dastot McSwordslegend, who has years of successful military career and a lust for battle and martial prowess, discover a special technique.

This system could also, instead of the Strange Mood system, it could be done more similarly to the way a great warrior names his weapon or shield. "Dastot McSwordslegend has begun training a new sword technique!" , let him just continue to do his business for a few seasons or years or however long it takes him to believe he's perfected it, then "Dastot has learned <name of Technique>"

I still think each legend could only have at a max of one technique they perfect/add to the world, because if they could make more, imagine a vampire at worldgen who becomes a great warrior, but lives for 1050 years before the player can intervene at all.