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Author Topic: Ultimate Gate Designs  (Read 2633 times)

N0ught

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Ultimate Gate Designs
« on: August 07, 2007, 02:59:00 pm »

The ultimate gate. Everyone wants one. Some claim they already have one. I am one of them.

After several hours with graph paper, in the quest to make THE most functional gate design, I believe I have it...

I present to you "The Four Levers of Feast and Famine":

 :eek:

Note: The "B" lever is normally kept in the "on" position, to allow passage through the fortress.

When defending the fort from marauding enemies, use this handy 12-step program:

1) Pull lever "A" to raise the bridge, blocking the passage to the fortress...
2) Wait until your enemies are in the hallway in front of the raised bridge...
3) Pull lever "B", sealing your enemies in the hallway as the "B" floodgates re-appear...
4) Mock your enemies as they feebly try to escape through your heaps of garbage...
5) Pull lever "C", removing the two "C" floodgates and the door to the refuse room...
6) Laugh maniacally as your enemies are drowned in a melange of water, mud and filth...
7) Pull lever "C", shutting off the flow...
8) Wait until the water disappears...
9) Pull lever "A", and watch as everything under the bridge is utterly annihilated as it falls back into place...
10) Pull lever "B", removing the floodgates from the entrance...
11) Wipe the tears of joy from your eyes...
12) Get back to work.

When irrigating your farm plot, use this handy 12-step program (make sure the farm room door is set to "Unpassable" first):

1) Pull lever "A"...
2) Pull lever "B"...
3) Pull Lever "C"...
4) Pull Lever "D"...
5) Wait until your farm room is filled with water...
6) Pull Lever "D"...
7) Pull Lever "C"...
8) Wait until the water disappears...
9) Pull Lever "A"...
10)Pull Lever "B"...
11) Sigh wistfully...
12) Start farming.

It still needs testing, but it seems pretty sound. I'm going to go try it right now.

*** Do you have an ultimate gate? Post it here. ***

[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: N0ught ]

Eagle of Fire

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2007, 03:14:00 pm »

This gate is too small. I'd make it 6 block high if I was ever to try something like this.

Also, what would happen if you have an incoming horde while a caravan is going to your depot? You drown them too?

I personally don't like the idea of having to flood my refuse pile as well as the main hallway every late winter only to get farming... Why would the farm need to be hooked to this setup anyways?

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Asehujiko

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2007, 03:36:00 pm »

To humiliate the enemies starving to death in the channel to the farm?
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N0ught

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2007, 03:40:00 pm »

quote:
Also, what would happen if you have an incoming horde while a caravan is going to your depot? You drown them too?

Yes.

quote:
Why would the farm need to be hooked to this setup anyways?

It doesn't have to be, but I wanted a gate that performed as many functions as possible. Incidentally, with one more switch and a lot of ductwork this could be a water or magma trap.

And anyway, what if I need to irrigate when I'm being beseiged? Goblins make great fertilizer.  :D

Shadowlord

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 03:47:00 pm »

I like the idea of being able to utterly destroy the equipment of invading armies, except that it means you would lose the metal junk that they had, which means you wouldn't be able to smelt it for free iron. (Of course, you need the economy for that...)

Unfortunately, there are a few problems with your plan:

Dwarves are incapable of opening a door which has been hooked to a lever. Thus, your refuse room would be utterly inaccessible to them unless the door was open all the time. And if the refuse room door was closed, and the bridge raised, and the farm floodgates closed, the goblins would just stand outside wondering how to get in.

Secondly, there is much here that could be improved or simplified:

1. Why bother with an elaborate flood scheme when you could just crush the enemy outright? Leave an unlocked door near the bridge or something, and lock it when they get near. Then crush them.

2. I would suggest that you put your waste management area somewhere else entirely, and use a layout that prevents miasma unhappiness in your refuse-haulers (Ignore the map description and just look at the PoI description and the image, of course).

3. Floodgate farming is impractical and un-necessary (in the immortal words of SHODAN), especially if it takes you that many steps to ready your farms each year. A much safer, quicker, and more reliable way is to do this:
1. Dig out one or two spaces beside the river bank for a good distance up or down the river.
2. Create a 6x10 room, or several connected rooms, near the river. Design it, and cut out extra rock along the river, such that you only have one tile of rock between the room and the riverbank tiles.
3. Smooth and then build fortifications on those wall tiles.

You don't need to hook up any levers or build any floodgates, and you don't really even need safety channels or doors outside the farms. You could build double or triple doors to reduce the likelihood of the natural floods getting your hallway floors wet, but you don't really NEED to.

Now to get your farms ready, wait for the natural river flood to safely turn those rooms' floors into mud, without any risk of drowning any dwarves or pulling them into the river, and then follow this 1-step program:
1. Start farming.

P.S. Simplicity is nice. I have a world-flooder which can flood either water or magma, and it has only three levers. One for the outside floodgate, one for the water pump, and one for the magma pump. My world anti-flood generator also only has two levers. All the floodgates powering all of my defensive-channel-re-flooders are all hooked up to a single lever.

[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]

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N0ught

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 08:42:00 pm »

quote:
I like the idea of being able to utterly destroy the equipment of invading armies, except that it means you would lose the metal junk that they had, which means you wouldn't be able to smelt it for free iron. (Of course, you need the economy for that...)

I usually play pre-economy, so no problem there.

 

quote:
Dwarves are incapable of opening a door which has been hooked to a lever.

I was unaware of that - thanks for the tip! Pretty much makes this gate useless. I am working on something better.

 

quote:
I would suggest that you put your waste management area somewhere else entirely, and use a layout that prevents miasma unhappiness in your refuse-haulers

Good tip... working it into my design.

 

quote:
3. Floodgate farming is impractical and un-necessary (in the immortal words of SHODAN), especially if it takes you that many steps to ready your farms each year. A much safer, quicker, and more reliable way is to do this:
1. Dig out one or two spaces beside the river bank for a good distance up or down the river.
2. Create a 6x10 room, or several connected rooms, near the river. Design it, and cut out extra rock along the river, such that you only have one tile of rock between the room and the riverbank tiles.
3. Smooth and then build fortifications on those wall tiles.

You don't need to hook up any levers or build any floodgates, and you don't really even need safety channels or doors outside the farms. You could build double or triple doors to reduce the likelihood of the natural floods getting your hallway floors wet, but you don't really NEED to.

Now to get your farms ready, wait for the natural river flood to safely turn those rooms' floors into mud, without any risk of drowning any dwarves or pulling them into the river, and then follow this 1-step program:
1. Start farming.


Ah, but I like floodgate farming for three reasons:

1. You don't have to wait for the spring flood every year.
2. The two floodgates, the door, and the three mechanisms can all be made out of stone, something you have a lot of early on.
3. Levers are almost as cool as shiny things. Almost.

Anyway, I have reviewed all of this, and have been working on a complete design for a self-sufficient 8-dwarf fortress, which I will post in its own thread.

Thanks for the help people!   :)

[ August 07, 2007: Message edited by: N0ught ]

Jifodus

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 10:59:00 pm »

I have a few designs, most of them deal with how to make an impregnable fortress, even after enemies can build/destroy buildings (bridges included), rewalling, etc.

Basically it comes down to building a bridge over a filled channel and raising it.  However, the only flaw with that is that if Toady ever lets buildings be built on top of each other (currently you can't build a bridge on top of the "ghost" of another bridge) it will be impossible to create an impregnable fortress.

[When I say "ghost" I'm talking about the area that the bridge takes up lowered, it shows up as red-X's even after the bridge is raised/retracted.]

As to the ultimate gate: I have built a few, some of them were never completed before I destroyed the world.  I might be able to find some map shots showing them, but due to frequent re-formats, running out of hd space, and version changes I may not have any more.  However it seems that I haven't deleted my latest attempt: http://mkv25.net/dfma/viewmap.php?view_mapid=578

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N0ught

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 11:11:00 pm »

That is... vast.  :p

PTTG

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2007, 01:11:00 am »

Ghaaa! Broken Links! OHHH NNNO! I want to see your fortress plans!
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Haedrian

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2007, 01:25:00 am »

"Image not found"

*sniff*

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Veroule

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2007, 08:14:00 am »

You should also take a look at my fortress Clear Copper.  It was built mostly by 10 dwarves before I allowed more to immigrate for a free standing military.
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KrunkSplein

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2007, 03:31:00 pm »

One thing on this has me confused.  Shadowlord, that refuse system makes it seem like Bones, Shells and Skulls don't cause Miasma.

If that's the case, that's rather groundbreaking for me - would entail a fortress redesign to move those bad boys back indoors.

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Shadowlord

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Re: Ultimate Gate Designs
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2007, 03:38:00 pm »

Right - those don't ever cause miasma.
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