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[Afghani84]

Hey guys,

I was looking for a challenging world without tweaking evil/good biomes or the number of beasts. Since a lot of people are complaining about the lack of sieges, I thought it might be a good idea to look into world gen parameters that could increase the likelihood of sieges. As far as I understand, sieges in the latest version are dependent on

1) the distance between your fortress and sites of the attacking civ
2) the amount of attackers that the site can spare to send out
3) the location of other sites that might be easier to attack/access (not sure if they have to be from your own civ as well)

Now in terms of parameters, [Population Cap After Civ Creation] and [Site Cap After Civ Creation] are most important in my opinion. I did some test runs with unlimited pop cap and the map quickly got flooded with sites. In general, that's great because it should increase the chance of sieges. Now there are a couple of things to consider:

a) to further increase the challenge and also to open up more room for the other civs to expand, it would be good to limit dwarven expansion as much as possible. one thing that seems to work (although somewhat unreliably) is to limit the amount of high elevation squares. I still had dwarven hillocks spreading quickly. any suggestions here?

b) as I mentioned in point 3, other sites could "steal" your sieges by being better accessible for attackers. to avoid too many sites, [Site Cap After Civ Creation] could be increased to allow high population numbers in a few concentrated locations.

c) when I did my test runs, I consistently had a high number of goblins compared to humans/elves/kobolds. I guess that they are simply more fertile than the rest but I was not able to find a fertility token in the raws. if someone knows how fertility rates can be altered, that would be of great help to ensure a constant supply of meat shields for human/elven/kobold sieges.

d) is there a correlation between the number of kobolds and the number of caves in the world? if so, an increased [Number of Non-Mountain Caves] (not mountain caves, since we are trying to get rid of high elevation squares, see a) should be helpful.

I'm sure there is way more to consider here but that's all that I can come up with at the moment. Feel free to add anything that I might have missed and I will add it to the original post to have all information in one spot! Let the discussion begin!

[Exodus]

Pretty sure you can affect litter size so that a female gives birth to multiple children.

[utunnels]

My pocket world has 10k goblins and only hundreds of dwarves.
I turned off beasts, necromancers(secrets) and semi-beasts.

Yes, I'm getting goblin sieges. But without modding the game, you probably won't have challenging sieges, just sieges.

[Number7]

i find one of the best things to do that ensures more sieges is necromancer towers, they are MUCH more siege happy than the goblins are

[utunnels]

Yesh, but they tend to give you an early visit then never come back, if you survive.

[Naryar]

Yesh, but they tend to give you an early visit then never come back, if you survive.

Hence: not fun. Necro towers always siege you far too early when you have no military or maybe a drawbridge as only defense system.

[utunnels]

Since nowadays everyone can have a strong military before a real siege, early surprise is a fun factor. In theory if you can make atom-smasher or cage traps, you can survive.

Besides, a military and a military that can fight the undead are two different things. If necromancers come after you have built a legendary army(probably years later), it loses its wicked surprise element.

[Naryar]

Since nowadays everyone can have a strong military before a real siege, early surprise is a fun factor.

Excepted when you get sieged in your first winter, it becomes impossible to survive unless you turtle up with walls.

In theory if you can make atom-smasher or cage traps, you can survive.

That's just solving a broken element of gameplay with another equally broken element of gameplay.

Though to be fair, if you embark next to a necro tower you expect fun, it's like embarking on an evil biome but the fun doesn't start immediately.

[Max™]

Oh, there are things you can do:


That is from my two combined experiments for adventurer mode fun, worlds with lots of megabeasts for a 66x66 map, condensed into a 17x17 map (with some values turned down appropriately) and my efforts to keep the fortresses from having a billion gobs and trolls packed inside. Downside is I removed the use evil animals so they wouldn't have the boringly passive 10,000 trolls, and I removed no_eat/drink, plus I removed the uh, tolerates_site:dark_fortress I think, both of which tend to give pops in the 100~1000 range and they prefer to spread out a bit instead of clumping into a single fort.

The world gen parameters themselves should still give similar results even if you don't make the changes to the entity and creature raws, but beware that goblins are likely to just take over everything if the map rolls a bit too high on evil squares, though you might enjoy that it is annoying having walls of impassable pits everywhere in adventurer mode.

Here's the 17x17 version:

Code: [Select]

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:SMALLPACKED]
[DIM:17:17]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1324]
[END_YEAR:200]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:175:15]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:150:400:3200:3200]
[RAINFALL:10:85:101:101]
[TEMPERATURE:40:80:101:101]
[DRAINAGE:40:100:101:101]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:101:101]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:101:101]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:6]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:3]
[TITAN_NUMBER:3]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:5]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:5]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:5]
[SECRET_NUMBER:5]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:5]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:5]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:5]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:5]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:2:4:8]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:2:4:8]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:1]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:64:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:1350]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:95]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:10]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:1]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:5]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:3]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:15]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:350]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]


The 33x33 version:

Code: [Select]

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:PACKED]
[DIM:33:33]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1324]
[END_YEAR:200]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:175:15]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:150:400:3200:3200]
[RAINFALL:10:85:101:101]
[TEMPERATURE:40:80:101:101]
[DRAINAGE:40:100:101:101]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:101:101]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:101:101]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:20]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:10]
[TITAN_NUMBER:10]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:10]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:5]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:5]
[SECRET_NUMBER:5]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:5]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:5]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:5]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:5]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:3:32:63]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:3:32:63]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:1]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:256:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:95]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:10]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:1]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:5]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:0]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:3]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:20]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:350]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

Worth noting that the elevation values play a role here, it really randomizes the clumps of mountains while preventing impassable walls of them, so you get clusters of dorf civs while armies can roam the map rather effectively.

[Afghani84]

Thanks for all the answers. Does anyone know why Goblins reproduce so much faster than humans/elves/dwarves? I looked at the raws and all of them seem to have [MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]. So why do I consistently get more goblins in world gen?

[BoredVirulence]

Well, goblins don't die of old age, and don't need to eat or drink, so they only die through combat. Population decline only occurs through war, and population growth is only slowed by murder.