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[Toady One]

To commemorate the death of my computer, I've posted one of the sub games that I managed to recover from my back ups.

[Gezol]

Well! That was... uh... yeah. You weren't kidding in the readme...

Truly, that was the quintessential Sub Game. Cross Stompers and Environmental Extremist have been dethroned. I'm impressed. I didn't think it could be done...

[Toady One]

Yeah, I seem to remember someone (was it you?) saying that the sub games seemed to be developing in some kind of meaningful direction.  There really had to be an end to all of that.

[Gezol]

Yeah, I think that was me. I was noting that the past two sub games had shared a censorship theme. I think that was the same discussion where you said they'd gotten too high quality lately(a trend that this new one has definitely reversed) and someone else wondered if there should be another category. F*ck Y** and I'm Voting For Myself do seem like they don't quite belong in the same category as the other three. But then, I guess that gets into the question of how you define a sub game.

It's an interesting question, actually. Is it... we'll call it "minimal"... gameplay that makes a sub game, is it fucked up subject matter, or are both required? And where is the line drawn? I've always thought it's determined by subject matter, but then again there's a lot of fucked up things in Liberal Crime Squad and it's not a sub game.
And Cross Stompers actually isn't that bad when it comes to subject matter, but there's no doubt about what category it belongs in. Maybe it's just one of those things where you know a sub game when you see it. Maybe I'm putting way more thought into this than the subject warrants...

[Toady One]

Even squiggles used to be in the sub games, although that is clearly not the right place for it, so I created the "other games" category.  There are going to be a ton of things about Star Team that make it subgameish (as with LCS), but it just doesn't fit the category.  I don't think any of the sub games took longer than a day or two to write (with the possible exception of cross stompers since I was learning DirectX at the time), with environmental extremist being the least at 3 hours.  This seems to be key -- if I spend more than a week on a sub game, it just won't be a sub game anymore.  In that way, I think that your assessment is right; both a kind of minimality and fucked-upedness are required.  Notice for instance, that a half written thing I've spent about an hour on called "Shit Thrower Cannibals" is on my computer.  Right now it just has a bunch of ET lookin things that throw shit and a radar.  This screams sub game.  It really just needs cannibalism, and some kind of score thingy, and it is good to go.  But who knows if or when that will ever come to pass.  It's like the Sword of Damocles really, except, it's more like the Ass of Damocles, and it is waiting to drop the bomb.

[Gezol]

Shit Thrower Cannibals... wow. Good name for a grindcore band. And I guess it goes to show what a Bay 12 fanboy I am that if you ever do release it, I'll download and play it immediately, in spite of the obvious fact that only pain and suffering will come of my doing so.

So the next question is, where will the prison card game that you told me about fit in? It sounds like it's really going to complicate the whole question of defining a sub game. Too fucked up to fit in anywhere but with the sub games, but too deep to be one. Maybe it'll need it's own separate category...

[Toady One]

You know, we were just talking about that in IRC.  The idea that tt threw out was that the prison game might have to be placed at the top of the list, and that the sub games could be ordered based on "importance".  There could be a button/link to order them based on release date maybe.

[X]

Reminds me, I still need to fix the rest of your site.

X

[Toady One]

X has far too many tasks.

[Ancient_Sleeping_Dude_Rei]

This is one strange game. 31 dead though  

[Kinghy]

31? I've killed 218 and counting. Man, I'm a bad person.