Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

 Greetings UristMcEscapedLunatic, recently i have been creating a few squads to defend myself against goblin pedophiles and kangaroos. However, i wasn't sure whether to assign them weapons or give them a choice. If i give them the choice will they pick the one they're best at? Are mixed melee and ranged squads a good idea? what is the best configuration for a fortress guard that will not be taking part in military operations?

[Lord_lemonpie]

When you give them a choice, they will take the weapon they're the best at. This isn't always the best idea, because (last time i checked the wiki at least) dwarves with the same kind of weapon will spar more often, which increases their stats faster. Making squads consisting of 2 people will also increase this chance a lot.

Also, mixed ranged/melee squads are terrible because the marksmen will only use their crossbows to bash, not actually shoot.

The best configuration for a fortress guard would probably just be sparring until all their combat stats are legendary.

[AlexanderTheIncompetant]

Thanks a lot!

[C27]

Note that you don't need training weapons to spar - it's perfectly valid to equip them with steel weapons ASAP and assign them better-quality ones later, melting the old ones.
As far as what weapons you choose, I like to keep about 50% of my military using crossbows and have smaller squads for different melee weapons. Swords are a good choice to start with as they're the most versatile all-round weapon. Hammers are good against undead, spears are good against large enemies, axes against goblins and other medium-sized fare, but crossbows and fortifications are essential against any enemy that you don't want to get close to.

[Chaosegg]

Also, I have found that the rumor about all-same-weapon-squads learning their weapon skills faster is likely to be true.

In 40.19 mixed-melee-weapon-squads I have seen dwarves with more than one weapon skill
even though they were assigned specific types before they had any weapon skill at all.
This leads to the conclusion they "wasted" a bit of training time on something they don't use.
Granted, it has been a minimal amount of skill in off-weapons (usually less than 100 exp~)
but that could be just because I separated my squads between different weapons within a year or two.

My question is: could it be less likely for cross-training-skill-waste if your mixed squad has "similar" melee weapons?
Like mace+hammer, spear+sword squads perhaps?
The only two guys in my fort who have ever sparred have actually been a spear+sword,
but they've been in squads together since early on.

[Larix]

Also, I have found that the rumor about all-same-weapon-squads learning their weapon skills faster is likely to be true.

Hmm, i found that uniformity vs. mixed-weapons is unlikely to matter for training efficiency:
mixed-weapons melee squad that has been training/sparring for a few years, six veterans, four rookies:
Legendary Swordsdwarf, no other weapon skills
Legendary Axedwarf, Competent Speardwarf (can't remember whether the dwarf immigrated with spear skill or switched weapons during training)
Legendary Swordsdwarf, no other weapon skills
Legendary Macedwarf, Novice Marksdwarf (Rusty; immigrated with marksdwarf skill, evidently never trained it)
Legendary Hammerdwarf, no other weapon skills
Legendary Speardwarf, no other weapon skills
Novice Axedwarf, Dabbling Speardwarf (picked up a spear first, equipment is "individual choice, melee")
Adept Swordsdwarf, Adequate Speardwarf (see above)
Novice Axedwarf, no other weapon skills
Great Speardwarf, dabbling Marksdwarf (immigrated with Marksdwarf skill, never trained/used)

There's a very tiny bit of cross-training applied to the three dwarfs who picked up a bit of spear experience in addition to their final weapon. Since the veterans handily reached high legendary skills in three years or so (legendary +20 or higher by the looks of the sparring logs), that cross-training doesn't hinder training in the main weapon and potentially improves mental attributes by training student, teacher, concentration and organisation skills. Not to mention that mixed-weapon squads are much more versatile when used in combat.

Cross-training was and is rare and takes up very little training time when it happens; it never was much of a concern to begin with and should be a complete non-issue with the faster training of DF 2014.

In short: build your squads however you please and don't worry about "will my dwarfs waste time telling the spear-users how to swing an axe?" a) usually they won't. b) even if they do, it hardly matters. What holds back sparring are typically lack of skills (dwarfs are reluctant to spar with less-than-adequate skills) and poor attributes (dwarfs that are quick to tire quickly abort sparring sessions). Once dwarfs get past those hindrances, they skill up very quickly, no matter how their squad is composed.

[Chaosegg]

This is excellent info. Larix, thank you very much!

[Urist Tilaturist]

Just manually assign each dwarf the real weapon you want. Training weapons are useless except in danger rooms or for live training so the victims last longer, but why use them when you could just have a barracks? I just give my dwarves the best weapons I can get, and a mixture of spears, axes, hammers, maces and swords. Marksdwarves are separate squads, and use wooden crossbows so they can also act as the fortress guard and beat tantrummers without killing them.

[CyberianK]

The first weapon I craft are usually Silver War Hammers because somehow I always stumble upon Silver. Steel and Bronze requires more effort and also that way I can use all the Bronze/Steel for Armor instead.
That way because Silver does not really have other uses I usually craft all of it into War Hammers netting me enough masterwork Weapons to equip everybody with them.
I sell the lesser quality Hammers to the Trade Caravan.
Later when I got complete sets of armor finished for enough dwarfs I mix the Hammerers up with additional Spear and Axe users.

EDIT: does anyone know if Silver weapons do more damage to Werebeasts?

[Magistrum]

Yes, but only some of them, werebeasts are generated with a material weakness, and it can be any metal: copper, silver, bronze, iron... When the adventurers ask for information on the beast the farmers usually say wich is it weakness, but anything will do, they just take longer to die.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Silver war hammers should squish easily after violent use, but damage to weapons is sadly not implemented yet.

[Niddhoger]

Note that you don't need training weapons to spar - it's perfectly valid to equip them with steel weapons ASAP and assign them better-quality ones later, melting the old ones.
As far as what weapons you choose, I like to keep about 50% of my military using crossbows and have smaller squads for different melee weapons. Swords are a good choice to start with as they're the most versatile all-round weapon. Hammers are good against undead, spears are good against large enemies, axes against goblins and other medium-sized fare, but crossbows and fortifications are essential against any enemy that you don't want to get close to.

Warhammers are NOT great against undead.  They have lower weight and deal less "crushing/pulping" damage than maces.  Warhammers are the best weapons against any humanoid opponent, as they can easily one-hit kill people by smashing their helmet into their skulls.  Tests have shown that silver warhammers are actually a bit stronger than candy axes for killing.

In mixed-weapon squads though, you'll often see people all doing their own drills.  Urist McLancer is doing a spear demonstration, Urist McStabby is doing his sword demonstration, Urist McChoppy has his axe demonstratoin going on, and Urist McDerp is doing a biting demonstration in the corner (or maybe hes just chewing on the wooden armor stand again.... hes "special") The point is, everyone is doing their own demonstration and no one is watching anyone else.  If they were all Swordsmen, then Urist McStabby would be leading a sword demonstration and everyone else would be watching said demonstration (except Urist McDerp, who would still be chewing on the armor stand).  Also, when they are all swordsmen (or swordsladies), they'll gain extra experience sparring.  The final reason I prefer homogeneous squads is that you order your dorfs around via SQUAD, not individually.  So the different weapons have different strengths, I want an entire squad of speardorfs to "pop" that hydra, but then I order the mace squads forward first against the undead.  Different weapon, different squad, different use.  Early on, I'll likely just leave 2 per squad.  5 squads of 2 dorfs each to cover more weapon skills and force more sparring.  Later on, I'll split the 2 "veterans" into their own squads to lead demonstrations for rookies.

[Urist Tilaturist]

I used to use mixed weapon squads, but after reading posts on this forum I realised the benefits of using many small squads instead. Put each weapon type into a separate squad and use them to the enemies' weaknesses.