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Author Topic: Is it worth it to not have a shield?  (Read 3495 times)

FallenAngel

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2015, 10:33:44 am »

Having a shield raises your chances of survival by an order of magnitude.
Having multiple shields (because adventure mode is buggy as fuck) increases it even further.

Ergo it is worthwhile to have a shield.

But of course, if you're not a filthy munchkin like me - be free to ignore the statistical disadvantages while RPing, at least then you'll have something that I don't have. (which is fun ;-;)
Having 14 shields and 15 bucklers makes you practically invulnerable.
I find some of the bugs to be HILARIOUS.
So yeah, use shield(s). If you want, have two or more. Significant amounts will slow you down, though. 29 shield items brought my adventurer to about 1/4 normal speed.

Bloax

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 10:40:43 am »

You can regain some of your speed by grinding your fighter/dodger/armor user skills up, although not all of it because the strength stat in DF is st0pid.
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bahihs

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 02:35:24 pm »

Is it possible to behead people with thrown shields? Because, Captain America.
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Magistrum

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 02:39:24 pm »

No, because the shield does blunt damage(Imagine less spinning disc and more flat piece of metal), but you can carve skulls into a unrecognizable mess.
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Arx

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 02:44:44 pm »

No, because the shield does blunt damage(Imagine less spinning disc and more flat piece of metal), but you can carve skulls into a unrecognizable mess.

Large, serrated discs, though...
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Max™

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2015, 04:34:07 pm »

Hmmm... I was curious if I could find some way to add tags or create a new item with the properties of a large serrated disc that could be used as a shield, or give a shield edged attacks like one, I tried multiple different things with no success at all... and then I had an idea which produced an interesting result:
"The Swordsman strikes at You but the shot is deflected by the ^Oadamantine spear^O!
The high mystery kicks You in the right lower arm with her left foot,
but the attack is deflected by Your ^Oadamantine right gauntlet^O!"

Hmmm, can't figure out how to make a weapon which lets you block with shield skill, but you can add armor properties to a weapon, which is interesting in itself.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 04:40:11 pm by Max™ »
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a smiling bearded cretin

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2015, 07:18:45 pm »

Having a shield raises your chances of survival by an order of magnitude.
Having multiple shields (because adventure mode is buggy as fuck) increases it even further.

Ergo it is worthwhile to have a shield.

But of course, if you're not a filthy munchkin like me - be free to ignore the statistical disadvantages while RPing, at least then you'll have something that I don't have. (which is fun ;-;)

From 34.11 Dwarven Research: A Study on Shielding. It is worthwhile to have many many shields, but only if you powerlevel, (and especially if you begin with superior endurance -- for those who will never become vamps/necros).

Bloax, I don't always think it's RPing that cause people to opt against powerleveling or even minor, minor grinding. It's just another way to do things that does work quite well however the interpretation. Now if this game involved PvP, there'd only be one true way, not the designer's way, but the most mechanically efficient way.
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FallenAngel

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2015, 07:46:15 pm »

So, in the raws, Bucklers have BLOCKCHANCE of 10, while Shields have BLOCKCHANCE of 20.
Therefore, a shield is approximately two bucklers, and two bucklers are approximately one shield.
So, in terms of full shields, my adventurer has ~21.5 shield's worth of protection.
Given that each shield's utility decreases by approximately the same factor as your first shield's (most practical way for the math to function - at or above two-thirds, the utility reaches and exceeds 100%). Assuming my adventurer has an approximate chance of blocking of 50% (due to being Legendary+Whatever, this is probably closer to 99.9999...%, but this makes the math easiest), the approximate overall utility of my 14 shields and 15 bucklers is very, very close to 1.
The utility exceeds 99.9% upon 10 shield's worth.
Therefore, the minimum number of shields to get near-complete protection is 10; near-complete, in this case, is defined as "99.9% PoB or higher".

EDIT: However, going by Platinum shields and bucklers, one buckler weighs approximately 81.5% that of a shield; therefore, while two bucklers are approximately equal to a shield in terms of raw blocking power, their weight is approximately 1.63 times that of a single shield. Bucklers are the lighter option, but only when one instrument of blocking is held - otherwise, shields are the most efficient, by far.

bahihs

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 08:04:54 pm »

So, in the raws, Bucklers have BLOCKCHANCE of 10, while Shields have BLOCKCHANCE of 20.
Therefore, a shield is approximately two bucklers, and two bucklers are approximately one shield.
So, in terms of full shields, my adventurer has ~21.5 shield's worth of protection.
Given that each shield's utility decreases by approximately the same factor as your first shield's (most practical way for the math to function - at or above two-thirds, the utility reaches and exceeds 100%). Assuming my adventurer has an approximate chance of blocking of 50% (due to being Legendary+Whatever, this is probably closer to 99.9999...%, but this makes the math easiest), the approximate overall utility of my 14 shields and 15 bucklers is very, very close to 1.
The utility exceeds 99.9% upon 10 shield's worth.
Therefore, the minimum number of shields to get near-complete protection is 10; near-complete, in this case, is defined as "99.9% PoB or higher".

EDIT: However, going by Platinum shields and bucklers, one buckler weighs approximately 81.5% that of a shield; therefore, while two bucklers are approximately equal to a shield in terms of raw blocking power, their weight is approximately 1.63 times that of a single shield. Bucklers are the lighter option, but only when one instrument of blocking is held - otherwise, shields are the most efficient, by far.

Could I ask you to put this in the 'The Combat System" thread also? It is very good information, just the kind that I am trying to compile in that thread.

Also, a few questions, what is the weight penalty for carrying so many shields? Is attack speed affected? You may be invulnerable, but can the turtle bite?
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FallenAngel

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Re: Is it worth it to not have a shield?
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 08:17:56 pm »

So, in the raws, Bucklers have BLOCKCHANCE of 10, while Shields have BLOCKCHANCE of 20.
Therefore, a shield is approximately two bucklers, and two bucklers are approximately one shield.
So, in terms of full shields, my adventurer has ~21.5 shield's worth of protection.
Given that each shield's utility decreases by approximately the same factor as your first shield's (most practical way for the math to function - at or above two-thirds, the utility reaches and exceeds 100%). Assuming my adventurer has an approximate chance of blocking of 50% (due to being Legendary+Whatever, this is probably closer to 99.9999...%, but this makes the math easiest), the approximate overall utility of my 14 shields and 15 bucklers is very, very close to 1.
The utility exceeds 99.9% upon 10 shield's worth.
Therefore, the minimum number of shields to get near-complete protection is 10; near-complete, in this case, is defined as "99.9% PoB or higher".

EDIT: However, going by Platinum shields and bucklers, one buckler weighs approximately 81.5% that of a shield; therefore, while two bucklers are approximately equal to a shield in terms of raw blocking power, their weight is approximately 1.63 times that of a single shield. Bucklers are the lighter option, but only when one instrument of blocking is held - otherwise, shields are the most efficient, by far.

Could I ask you to put this in the 'The Combat System" thread also? It is very good information, just the kind that I am trying to compile in that thread.

Also, a few questions, what is the weight penalty for carrying so many shields? Is attack speed affected? You may be invulnerable, but can the turtle bite?
Well, with 14 shields and 15 bucklers, my speed (at extreme amounts of agility and strength), dropped down near 1/4 normal speed.
This would be a problem, but 0.40.01 had the movement/action split; there is no significant drop in attack speed no matter your movement speed. So, a cheetah attacks about as fast as a tortoise.
Therefore, it is perfectly safe to be completely encumbered; however, once battle is close (unless you're a shieldball), I advise waiting (using , or .).
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