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Author Topic: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.  (Read 913 times)

Sumyunguy

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Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« on: January 02, 2015, 02:09:22 am »

I just lost nearly all of my embark party to a single alligator snapping turtle. It started when one dwarf decided to attack the turtle as it was running away. He even chased it over a river and proceeded to exhaust himself from punching it, then promptly got his throat removed while he was on the ground. I had a dwarf or two jump in a river and drown just to take a swing at the turtle.

Is there anyway to keep dwarves from pulling these shenanigans? Or, is this just a fruit of the new terror/discipline system DF2014 has. I couldn't find anything with a google search about the problem, besides a bug report back from 40d, though I most likely overlooked something as I've never had this happen before.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 02:13:20 am »

I'd suggest creating a civilian alert to pull them back. That might work.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 02:15:38 am »

Civilian alerts lead to your army sitting around being slaughtered. Just have all their work well underground, with a wall and drawbridge to keep them inside.
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utunnels

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 02:18:14 am »

Well sadly once they engage the enemy they won't stop.
Like you can't order your soldiers NOT to kill something.

It is inevitable.


A similar problem is some civs will run from enemies on sight. You can't stop them either. This can be really bad since they can run into another pack of enemies.

I do hope this can be improved. You know, in real life you won't run like a headless fly when you see a chainsaw killer.
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Sumyunguy

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 02:22:33 am »

Yeah, I tried putting the dwarf into a squad with a station order the move him away, but no dice. I'll have to try burrows, or just keeping civilians away from all wild animals. That'll be hard seeing how they need to haul surface items underground like logs, plants, embark supplies.
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wobbly

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 03:21:10 am »

Bring dogs. Or copper hammers, there pretty cheap. Won't stop them chasing but at least if you can get them to pick up the hammers 1st they'll be in a better position.
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Pyrite

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 04:10:58 am »

Does it avoid the bug to use a burrow to get your dwarves behind a locked door, then lock the door and end the alert?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 06:22:51 am »

The solution really depends on what your problem is.

If the problem is that the above ground biome is hostile (i.e. the local animals are hostile), you can:
1. Send sort of reasonably equipped dwarves to kill the animals.
2. Hide underground while the dangerous ones roam the surface, and venture out only when reasonably benign creatures are about (which is my tactic in the caverns).
3. Use war animals (typically dogs) attached to the civilians who are out. Dogs aren't that good fighters, but they can buy you time.

If the problem is that you sometimes encounter dangerous animals:
1. If the animals are location associated (such that aquatic dangers), keep away from these locations.
2. Use 1 above, i.e. send militia to kill them.
3. Use civilian alert burrows to get civilians to safety. Disable outdoors pastures to get the animals to drift inside your fortress towards your meeting area.

Regardless of the above: Make sure you have a secure fortress with at least a couple of draw bridges to close off the entrance, and it is quite useful to have cage traps as well (if they're inside the outermost drawbridge you can close the bridge and then reload the traps in safety), since some animals try to get into your fortess. If you cannot handle/live with animals, you'll probably have significant troubles dealing with enemies.

Some might consider turtling (hiding within the fortess) to be cowardly. I think it makes common sense. Turtling shouldn't be passive either, but rather the time should be spent devicing means to deal with the threats (mechanical defenses, better training/equipment,...). Also, you can turtle in some directions, and work mostly as normal in others (e.g. turtling against a surface threat and one in the second cavern, while working as normal in the first, and preparing the proper break of the third [but you'd probably put this on hold until the other threats have been dealt with]).
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wobbly

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 08:01:48 am »

Strangely enough livestock can work surprisingly well. Chances are the snapping turtle will flee a lama & vis versa. I'm yet to see a predator attack cattle & it appears that kobolds fear my sheep.
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Deboche

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Re: Civilians sprinting into combat and getting killed.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 08:54:14 am »

I had the same problem. All dwarves and creatures in general were too cowardly a few updates back, now either some or all of them bum rush enemies. I think we need some balance.
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