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Author Topic: Grazer Formula  (Read 1473 times)

Baffler

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Grazer Formula
« on: December 28, 2014, 09:59:48 pm »

Does anyone know how the solution to the equation for grazer values correlates to pasture size? I'm trying to figure out the optimal pasture size for the elephants I captured wanderin' about on my lawn. I've checked the RAWs and they're a standard grazer, so the formula is:

GRAZER = 20000 × G × (max size)-3/4

For elephants:
19 ≈ 20000 × 100 × (5,000,000)-3/4
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Arx

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 05:11:10 am »

Don't elephants have a bug where if they're captured they die of starvation faster than they can eat? I don't know if that helps.
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Naryar

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 05:19:32 am »

Don't elephants have a bug where if they're captured they die of starvation faster than they can eat? I don't know if that helps.

It has been fixed lately.

Arx

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 05:31:19 am »

Neat. Don't mind me, then.
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paldin

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2014, 02:12:19 am »

If I'm understanding the wiki correctly then your calculation is inaccurate.

Your elephant's max size before being put into the formula is supposed to be divided by ten, so it's 500,000 instead of 5 Million. Keeping that in mind, your result should be ≈106; but the minimum value for GRAZER is 150, so it'd be bound to 150 instead. If you set the value of GRAZER directly, you'd be setting the value which hunger is reduced; which I'm assuming works the same way with a calculated value.

But to answer your question, there's a few things to keep in mind.

There isn't much written about animals and hunger, but dwarfs increase hunger by 1 each tick (e.g. 1,200 per day, 33,600 per month, 100,800 per season) and will reduce hunger (and thirst) by 50,000 each meal. All assuming that mechanic hasn't been changed since last version. Both creatures and dwarfs are reported to die at 100,000 hunger, so the assumption looks safe so far. Your elephant needs to eat at least once every 150 ticks just to maintain hunger. Remember that there are, at most, four bunches of grass on each tile (elephants don't look like they have the GRASSTRAMPLE token, so that's fortunate). Speed has been completely changed, but the old values for movement speed are equivalent, leading one to assume that creatures move as often as they had previously. So you need a pasture large enough that an elephant can move to fresh grass every 600 ticks (with 4 patches x 150 GRAZER value).

How long does it take for a specific biome tile to regrow its four patches of grass? You find out that answer and you can calculate how many tiles of pasture you need on your map. Alternatively you can assume that the function of GRAZER in .40 is equivalent to .34 and look at the old values for animals. A mule has GRAZER of 150 and is suggested a pasture of 12x12 (total 144 tiles). Go with that and let us know if your elephant starts getting hungry. There's a nice chart on the wiki for .34 that can be mostly copied over for .40 if the GRAZER formula's minimum value is the only thing that actually changed.
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Larix

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2014, 06:43:27 am »

I must caution against using the wiki page as reference: it was woefully inaccurate for .34.11 (exaggerated pasture requirements by factor two or three) and is completely obsolete now.

Elephants don't have an explicit "Grasstrample" entry, which i think means their value is "normal" (i.e. quite a lot). Explicit values are only used to specify that a creature has an "abnormal" effect on grass, for example for creatures that do _not_ trample grass (grasstrample:0). If there's no mention, it generally means a creature _does_ trample grass, and the value presumably depends on creature size.

Case in point: dwarfs have no "grasstrample" entry and they certainly do erode grass where they walk. Elves have "grasstrample:0".

I tried out two 10x10 undisturbed plots cleared of all vegetation:
a) underground room, dug out just before breaching the caverns
b) aboveground area, cleared via b-O (build dirt road)

I let both run for about 100 days. At the end,
a) had 30 tiles of "sparse", 19 of "normal" (i.e. without density indicator) and 10 of "dense" vegetation, two saplings and four bushes. 35 tiles remained naked loam.
b) had 14 tiles of "sparse and 4 of "normal" grass and 11 of bamboo of varying density (technically also grass but afaik not useable by grazers other than pandas); 33 tiles remained "furrowed" soil (all tiles are converted to furrowed when building). 13 tiles of the area were tree trunks or naked rock.

Assuming that "sparse" counts as one unit of vegetation, "normal" as two and "dense" as three, it looks like the underground area gained ~ one unit of vegetation per day. More likely, each tile had a 1% chance per day to grow something. The remainder of 35 tiles of naked soil after 100 days fits the prediction. Similarly, the 33 tiles out of 87 of furrowed soil suggest that furrowed soil "unfurrows" with a similar probability, and furrows must be gone before vegetation can grow.

I took stock of values every ten days, and the underground plot _did_ gain around about ten units of vegetation in each of those intervals. Since the aboveground plot had to first run off the furrows before anything could grow, direct observation of growth was not so conclusive there. Some biomes _are_ practically sterile where the original surface is concerned (deserts, wastelands), but from what i've seen, you seem to get perfectly normal (1% a day?) growth when you channel into the soil.

PS: if 150 "grazer" meant a creature has to eat a full "unit" of grass every 150 steps, that'd mean 8 per day. 100 tiles of grassland replenish one unit per day on average, so to replenish 8, you'd need 800 tiles of pasture (not even taking into account non-grass tiles like exposed rock, trees and bushes), roughly 28x28. Experience says a horse (grazer 120 in .34.11) didn't need 1000 but only ~60 tiles of pasture. Looks like the actual workings of grazing are still largely unknown and the extant theories are a long way off the mark.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 11:36:41 am by Larix »
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Baffler

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 02:28:57 pm »

I guess it's time for some science! I'll set aside some pastures and let them grow to the maximum grass density, then drop a more easily obtained animal (to prevent a very predictable tragedy) into the enclosure to see what happens.
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

xaritscin

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Re: Grazer Formula
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 06:07:02 pm »

right now have a pair of elephants, havent finished domestication but have survived quite good in their cages. maybe putting them in a max sized zone if you have the spare space.
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