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Author Topic: Normal vs Well-crafted  (Read 593 times)

utunnels

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Normal vs Well-crafted
« on: January 08, 2015, 12:03:08 am »

Should I spend twice the money on a (-steel spear-) while there's a normal (steel spear) available for sale?

I've checked the wiki, there are too many unknowns.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Normal vs Well-crafted
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 12:07:46 am »

Well there's 4 steps between one and two, and the steps are likely even, so it seems an okay assumption that each step will increase by 1/5 so the first step would be 1.2. It's probably not worth it, but there is more than just a to hit modifier on quality levels, the sharpness and I guess in blunt weapons probably something else increases too.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Normal vs Well-crafted
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 01:06:31 am »

Since you tend to have too much value anyway, price usually doesn't matter. If you're early on and don't have enough worn socks yet, it depends on whether you're going to use it or melt it. My preferred option would be to buy all of them, melt them, reforge, until I get masterworks.
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blue sam3

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Re: Normal vs Well-crafted
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 05:23:33 pm »

Why not buy the cheap one, melt it down and reforge it? By rinsing and repeating, you can get a spear at least as good (or with patience, vastly better) as the expensive one, for the price of the cheap one (plus a bit of fuel), with the added benefit of some weaponsmith training. Even if you only reforge it once, you're guaranteed to at least not make it worse.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Normal vs Well-crafted
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 07:44:01 pm »

Well there's 4 steps between one and two, and the steps are likely even, so it seems an okay assumption that each step will increase by 1/5 so the first step would be 1.2. It's probably not worth it, but there is more than just a to hit modifier on quality levels, the sharpness and I guess in blunt weapons probably something else increases too.

This is actually wrong.  Sharpness and density are static values for each material, and quality modifier only affects +hit for weapons and armor deflection for armor (other than value, ofc).  That being said, standard quality is x1, masterwork is x2, and artifact is x3.  If the ranks between standard and masterwork are improvements.. it'll only be by fractions.  If the levels in between are even increases... then "well crafted" would be something like 1.2 and "superior" would be 1.6.  Is that fraction of an increased to hit modifier worth it? I generally say no.  I prefer to just endlessly melt down and reforge armor to train up my smith's until I get a full set of masterwork.  My first militia gets w/e I crap out as its better than nothing, but I do not obsess over the values levels beyond getting everyone straight to masterwork.
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vjmdhzgr

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Re: Normal vs Well-crafted
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 08:28:17 pm »

Well there's 4 steps between one and two, and the steps are likely even, so it seems an okay assumption that each step will increase by 1/5 so the first step would be 1.2. It's probably not worth it, but there is more than just a to hit modifier on quality levels, the sharpness and I guess in blunt weapons probably something else increases too.

This is actually wrong.  Sharpness and density are static values for each material, and quality modifier only affects +hit for weapons and armor deflection for armor (other than value, ofc).  That being said, standard quality is x1, masterwork is x2, and artifact is x3.  If the ranks between standard and masterwork are improvements.. it'll only be by fractions.  If the levels in between are even increases... then "well crafted" would be something like 1.2 and "superior" would be 1.6.  Is that fraction of an increased to hit modifier worth it? I generally say no.  I prefer to just endlessly melt down and reforge armor to train up my smith's until I get a full set of masterwork.  My first militia gets w/e I crap out as its better than nothing, but I do not obsess over the values levels beyond getting everyone straight to masterwork.
MAX_SHARPNESS is a static value for a material, but the actual sharpness isn't. I don't remember any source that directly says quality increases sharpness, though there probably is one somewhere. There is however a direct quote from Toady that implies so http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Item_quality the quote from the page being "It looks like the artifact edges are the maximum edge for the material, which is also what a masterwork gets, so beyond a masterwork you'd just be getting the hit roll modifier." I'd think that high quality blunt weapons get more than just a hit chance increase, but it might be so.
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Its a feature. Impregnating booze is a planned tech tree for dwarves and this is a sneak peek at it.
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