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[puke]

My question is this:

(EDIT: My test plan was not rigorous enough, this does not actually work like as it initially seemed to)

Can a floor hatch -- by it's self, assuming all other conditions for a cave-in are met -- prevent a cave-in?

Let me expand on this by describing the scenario I have in mind, I'll start by stating a few facts:

Regarding Cave-ins:

• Cave-ins require orthogonal support, diagonal walls or floors will not support a cave-in
• a bridge will not support a cave-in

Regarding Hatch Covers:

• hatch covers can be constructed over empty space
• hatch covers require orthogonal support to be constructed, a diagonally connected wall or floor is insufficient
• bridges count as a support structure for hatch covers

Regarding bridges:

• a raising bridge requires a floor along the entire side that it raises TOWARDS
• all but one tile of this floor may be deconstructed after the bridge is complete, and the bridge will still function

Right, so with that established (yes, those are all tested and established facts), let me get to the scenario I have in mind:

Dig a hole:

Code: [Select]

.....
.._..
.___.
.._..
.....
Build some walls in the bottom of the hole, so you've got some "floors" or "wall-tops" to work with on the upper level:

Code: [Select]

.....
..+..
.+_+.
..+..
.....
Build some bridges that raise TOWARDS the hole:

Code: [Select]

.....
.╥╞╡.
.╨_╥.
.╞╡╨.
.....
REMOVE the constructed walls, so there is no solid orthagonal support to the hole except via bridge.

Build a hatch cover over the hole, supported by the bridges:
(EDIT: This part does not actually work.  I seemed to have overlooked a supporting piece of ground when setting up the first test case)

Code: [Select]

.....
.╥╞╡.
.╨¢╥.
.╞╡╨.
.....
All of the above is DONE, is possible, tested, works as described.

My question is as above:  In this configuration, will the hatch cover prevent a cave-in while it is closed?  If I go on to rig up some water and magma plumbing to cast a single block of obsidian into that little bridgey/hatchey crucible, will the closed hatch cover support it until I open the hatch cover with a lever?

If so, I have a re loadable cave-in / magma mist generator.

If not, the reloading process will require the construction of a single 1x1 retracting bridge in place of the hatch cover... so I guess it isn't so bad even if it does not work the way I am hoping it does. (EDIT: this wont be supported either, so the floor tile wont work)

[Larix]

My question is this:

Can a floor hatch -- by itself, assuming all other conditions for a cave-in are met -- prevent a cave-in?

In the unmodded game, no.

Let me expand on this by describing the scenario I have in mind, I'll start by stating a few facts:
[...]

• bridges count as a support structure for hatch covers

I don't see that. Tiles only accessible from bridge prevent construction of hatch covers, grates and floor bars with the message "surrounded by open space". Bridges (and constructions) can be built starting on such tiles, but may cave in upon completion.

[instructions]

Nope, doesn't work for me either. Removing the walls below the bridges forbids construction of the hatch - "surrounded by open space". Installing the hatch and then removing the wall deconstructs the hatch.

DF 0.40.18 unmodded.

[puke]

Well that's confounding.   I had this working before I posted and now that you've caused me to go back and re-verify, I can not construct the hatch cover with the same methods.  I can only assume I overlooked some extraneous support tile the first time.

Won't work with floors either, they can be constructed with nothing but a bridge supporting them, but they immediately collapse. 

I guess a 1x1 bridge would be the solution.  They are not supported diagonally, but are supported by other bridges even when those bridges are raised.  I mean, as long as they are still touching the raised bridge.

This isn't so bad.  It means that dropping the obsidian chunk will happen as soon as it is formed, but that is controllable.  It also means that reloading the machine requires not only mining out the dropped chunk, but also reconstructing the 1x1 bridge

[Loci]

Bridges (and hatch covers) do not provide any support. If you managed to get a hatch cover into position, the cast obsidian would remain supported by whatever was supporting the hatch cover. If you somehow managed to get a floating hatch cover (or just decide to use a larger bridge), you'll find that the cave-in happens immediately, deconstructing/destroying any constructions under it (e.g. the hatch cover or bridge).

You can combine water and magma in mid-air to generate repeatable cave-ins, or just drop a constructed floor.

[puke]

I dont like the mid-air designs, they tend to be messy.  Magma and water dont flow at the same rate, so it's pretty difficult to time without having some spillage of one fluid or the other.

I want to drop a single square of obsidian, and it looks like I'll have to reconstruct the 1x1 bridge to do it.  As you say, it will deconstruct the bridge as soon as you

None of this couldn't be done better and more easily with one of the impulse-minecart magma mist generators, but I like the idea of having a series of giant crucibles above the entryway.