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Author Topic: Getting that little prick arrested...  (Read 3001 times)

Quietust

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2014, 11:29:58 am »

Once again, in revisions before .40.17, stress will not recede in a notable way. At all. You'd have to keep a dwarf safe from even the slightest unhappy thought like "caught in the rain" for decades to get a measurable stress reduction: stress is not removed by having happy thoughts, it's removed by a long-term lack of further stressors. If you expect a dwarf to become less stressed in half a year, the only way to achieve this is to upgrade to a newer version.
Not strictly true - you just need really strong positive emotions in order to manage it. Contentment and enjoyment won't do much, but Delight and Joy will definitely help them relax. The main issue was likely that, while stress increases and decreases are capped, stress increases are adjusted (based on personality) after they are capped, so a dwarf with high stress vulnerability could offset the maximum stress decrease with only a few minor negative emotions. Granted, I haven't looked at the stress code in 0.40.18, so it's possible Toady made additional changes to make positive emotions more powerful than they were previously, but they definitely had an effect (to the point that dwarves could easily get negative stress levels).
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Metalax

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2014, 01:21:25 pm »

If I recall correctly children are immune to being punished for their crimes... but their record doesn't go away. Just wait for them to transition to an adult and all those long delayed beatings come back in one veritable orgy of Justice.
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Col_Jessep

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2014, 06:39:23 pm »

"Stressed" is just the generic unhappiness marker and will _not_ result in serious problems. I've only seen tantrums (or other types of episodic insanity) from dwarfs who were "haggard" or "haunted". The worst thing stressed dwarfs do is occupy your mayor with meetings.
Yup, exactly what I observed. Meeting with the mayor didn't help much though, they still had a red arrow.

I haven't yet walled any dwarves off to die yet. I hate having dwarves starve or dehydrate. I just went with what the game handed me, but it was getting ridiculous.
Yup, I upgraded to 40_16r2  and will have to use the script. Would be great if we had a dwarf therapist as job. Nice office with a mist generator and a feather tree wood bed...

You just need really strong positive emotions in order to manage it. Contentment and enjoyment won't do much, but Delight and Joy will definitely help them relax. The main issue was likely that, while stress increases and decreases are capped, stress increases are adjusted (based on personality) after they are capped, so a dwarf with high stress vulnerability could offset the maximum stress decrease with only a few minor negative emotions. Granted, I haven't looked at the stress code in 0.40.18, so it's possible Toady made additional changes to make positive emotions more powerful than they were previously, but they definitely had an effect (to the point that dwarves could easily get negative stress levels).
I think that was what kept my fort going for so long. Everybody had a masterfully engraved 6 tile bedroom and ate in a very nice meeting hall. The really tough cases were still incurable though. I gave my bone carver a royal bedroom, fulfilled his life's dream, gave him time to scream at the mayor or talk to other dwarfs. It kept him stable at a very stressed but content level. But I guess all it takes is a little push and he is tantrumming like a champion.

The kid dropped into melancholy and came back from that state a couple of times. That's something I like, that you can bring them back from melancholy. I hated it when I lost a dwarf because I had run out of something he needed for a mood. It was so sad to see them wander around in a daze until they killed themselves and you could do nothing about it... :(

If I recall correctly children are immune to being punished for their crimes... but their record doesn't go away. Just wait for them to transition to an adult and all those long delayed beatings come back in one veritable orgy of Justice.
Oh dear, he would have been in prison for years or worse... xD
It was very strange that his murder was never reported though. The mayor joined the battle (I have a part in this/revenge). Maybe it was counted as duel with no quarter or something. Dunno.
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Larix

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 11:24:30 am »

Deaths related to tantrums are often omitted from the justice screen. It may be that tantrummers are not fully legally accountable because of temporary insanity. But i've also seen cases where onlookers would come to the help of victims of a tantrummer's ire and would then be put down by other fort citizens without legal repercussions, with "interrupted by <profession>" cancellation messages suggesting they lost loyalty somewhere in the process.

For an extreme example, there's still my .40.14 save on the DFFD site. Must be played in .40.14 or .40.15 for full "separated from loved ones" effect. At the saved state, there were seven dwarfs dead in tantrums, with no murders listed on the justice screen.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=10017

As to happy vs. unhappy thoughts and their influence on stress: however the technical workings may look, keeping unhappy thoughts away is _much_ more important than providing happy thoughts. It seems that the typical stress victims have a mental constitution that pretty much nullifies happy thoughts and blows unhappy thoughts completely out of proportion. I have two constantly stressed dwarfs in .40.18 (where by the notes, stress has been toned a long way down), and for both, the "slept without an own room" thought is over a year past. The only unhappy thought that's still noted is "caught in the rain", which is enough to keep them stressed through over a dozen lines of happiness over awesome quarters, a legendary dining room, nice furniture, tons of councelling sessions with the mayor and job satisfaction. The one i've looked through has "doesn't handle stress well", "is often sad and dejected" and "distrusts nature" (most work happens outside).
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Graknorke

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 12:24:03 pm »

until dfhack and dwarf therapist are available for 40.18
Doesn't dfhack make DT redundant?
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Naryar

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Re: Getting that little prick arrested...
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 03:00:10 pm »

Drawbridges. There seems to be no solution to the emodwarves, except killing them.
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