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[Leafsnail]

I guess you could argue that the laws of physics are a "rules framework", but the whole point of a game is that it follows an additional set of rules that go beyond those that you always have to follow in reality.  Minecraft certainly does even if they're hidden within the computer interface.

[Reelya]

A "Poor conclusion" for puzzle/adventure games is getting stuck in the game. But you have to make active decisions, which is the point.

A pure visual novel, of which there are a few, basically has scenes, and you push the "A" button on your controller to advance the scene. This is the same level of interactivity as turning a page in a normal book. If you can turn on Auto mode on a VN and watch it like a movie, then that's pushing the boundaries of what most people would call a game.

Some of them basically reach the status of badly animated anime when you do that. So I can ask the question, if I took an anime, ran it through my personal player which paused the movie every 3 minutes and you had to unpause it, this would basically be the same interactions as some visual novels. So, a glitchy video player that pauses randomly - it's a game now.

[Leafsnail]

I don't think anyone has claimed that pure Visual Novels are games, but who cares really.  You should be able to infer that they will be like books from the name.

[Reelya]

Maybe the whole issue noted by the OP - people buying one thing but getting something they didn't expect, is not an issue of "game" vs "not game", but it's an issue that Steam doesn't have categories which properly reflect the modern genres of games available. If they had an interactive fiction category then no-one could complain about getting one.

[Neonivek]

Maybe the whole issue noted by the OP - people buying one thing but getting something they didn't expect, is not an issue of "game" vs "not game", but it's an issue that Steam doesn't have categories which properly reflect the modern genres of games available. If they had an interactive fiction category then no-one could complain about getting one.

I wouldn't put Dear Esther, which is non-interactive, and lets say... Heavy Rain in the same category.

"Art" is a good category for Dear Esther and Stanley Parable that no one can confuse.

[Moghjubar]

Desert Bus - the game.  http://desertbus-game.org/

And in general, games are now also classified as art as well... at least in certain circumstances, to this thing: http://heartland.org/policy-documents/nea-fund-video-games-taxpayers%E2%80%99-money

[Quartz_Mace]

Indeed, games are an "art form." So is film, painting, drawing, T.V. (An extension of film), craftsmanship, literature, story-telling, and many other abstract things.

[Cowboy Colt]

I agree with this. Dayz or minecraft for example are not games at all, they are software toys and they should be sold as such. Similarly visual novels are not games, they are... well, visual novels which is it's own sort of thing. There needs to be more categories, rather then bunching everything together.

The problem is marketing, of course. Anything that loses the "game" label will automatically be considered inferior. It's too bad though, more categories would be useful.

I wouldn't say it's a case of needing more categories as much as needing to overcome our need to categorise things at all. We, as a society, pigeon hole products constantly.

[Cowboy Colt]

Maybe the whole issue noted by the OP - people buying one thing but getting something they didn't expect, is not an issue of "game" vs "not game", but it's an issue that Steam doesn't have categories which properly reflect the modern genres of games available. If they had an interactive fiction category then no-one could complain about getting one.

I believe the larger issue is that, as this thread indicates, people struggle to agree on what defines something. We all interpret art individually so people ought to take responsibility for their choices and recognise that they perceive things differently and have varying levels of tolerance.

We could continue to categorise by mechanics but that also feels disingenuous. Maybe we need to a more abstract process to categorise (i.e. setting, tone, etc.)