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Author Topic: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]  (Read 7404 times)

indyofcomo

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 11:00:34 am »

ptw
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scriberman

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 10:28:51 pm »

...and now the bad news.

My wife has outfoxed me, and convinced me that starting a new tutorial video, to coincide with the launch of Extra Life 2014 would be a great thing. Not only could I do my tutorial on stream and get a more updated version, but I could collect for a charity at the same time, and help new players learn to play live like always: win-win-win! Since I couldn't think of a good reason not to do the right thing, I agreed.

So. Now comes the work part.

Before you consider starting to post pictures for this guide, let me ask that you consider cooling your jets for a week (Until ~8am on 10/26/2014) and I'll end up with ~24 hours of video for you to annotate, document, index, correlate, analyze, fold, spindle, and mutilate. In the meantime, I can scribble some notes about what I've done in this series, and use them to (hopefully) provide you with better quality material to work with. :)

This annotation's something I've wanted to do, but involves a tremendous amount of effort I haven't been able to invest and I really don't like the idea of any of your effort being "wasted" as annotating the series in this fashion will be a priceless benefit to any who might want to refer to the video!

Thoughts?

Wow.  Whoa.  and Wow! :>

There is so much Win in that whole concept.

Does your wife also play DF?  (Thanks, Matt's Wife!)

Does, "we'll start with worldgen (from predetermined settings)," mean that you will have a world generated at start time of streaming, or just that you will walk through your personal settings (like this original video set)?  Either way, I am curious what exciting developments may occur if you were to post the worldgen file/world save in advance of the live stream?  I can quickly imagine three things:  1) someone may chime in with story-building information, 2) someone may chime in with native creature reports, and 3) someone may chime in with "unrevealed" information.  Or, perhaps, you just want to keep the surprises to yourself until you get to them.  I'm just curious. :)

I don't see our efforts as a total waste.  At the very least, it is practice for Matt's DF2014LVT (Long Video Tutorial). :>

jwhite.df, if you think you will be interested in annotating for the LVT, I suggest making a new thread at that time (and please let us know where it's at).  If not, then I could do it.  I have an idea to arrange a topical outline format, after the chronological annotations are complete.

I hope the new DF version is out by then!

Edit:  changed "let me know" to "let us know."
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:32:32 pm by scriberman »
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jwhite.df

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2014, 12:04:33 am »

...and now the bad news.

My wife has outfoxed me, and convinced me that starting a new tutorial video, to coincide with the launch of Extra Life 2014 would be a great thing. Not only could I do my tutorial on stream and get a more updated version, but I could collect for a charity at the same time, and help new players learn to play live like always: win-win-win! Since I couldn't think of a good reason not to do the right thing, I agreed.

So. Now comes the work part.

Before you consider starting to post pictures for this guide, let me ask that you consider cooling your jets for a week (Until ~8am on 10/26/2014) and I'll end up with ~24 hours of video for you to annotate, document, index, correlate, analyze, fold, spindle, and mutilate. In the meantime, I can scribble some notes about what I've done in this series, and use them to (hopefully) provide you with better quality material to work with. :)

This annotation's something I've wanted to do, but involves a tremendous amount of effort I haven't been able to invest and I really don't like the idea of any of your effort being "wasted" as annotating the series in this fashion will be a priceless benefit to any who might want to refer to the video!

Thoughts?

Cool. I think if we find and annotate the general things it makes sense to annotate, it might help to highlight what it is that people are looking for. Step-by-step military build-out is probably one of those things. I'm always interested in which trade good people deploy. Which subsets of industry get set up, when, and why. Your philosophy of having haulers do all labors where skill only results in speed, not higher value, was an eye-opener to me. Those are the things I'm looking for.

You prospect with long, straight hallways instead of the checkerboard patterns from QuickFort. I'd be interested in commentary on why.

I assume you'll be covering DFHack workflow. I'd like to request ahead of time that you include your workflow limits in a script file as part of the distribution. This thread has some good ideas.

Just using vanilla worldgen, not PerfectWorld?

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Nameless Archon

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2014, 11:15:48 am »

Does your wife also play DF?  (Thanks, Matt's Wife!)
No, sadly, she's not expressed any interest in ruling the lives of dwarves with an iron fist and a will to match. She settles for ruling the lives of overseers with an iron fist and will to match.

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Does, (snip) mean that you will have a world generated at start time of streaming, or just that you will walk through your personal settings (like this original video set)?
I mean I'll sit down and generate a world. I generally don't use the same world twice unless I find a particularly good tutorial site - as I did in 34.11.

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Either way, I am curious what exciting developments may occur if you were to post the worldgen file/world save in advance of the live stream?
It's my intent to post seed, profile and professions ahead of the stream.

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I can quickly imagine three things:  1) someone may chime in with story-building information, 2) someone may chime in with native creature reports, and 3) someone may chime in with "unrevealed" information.  Or, perhaps, you just want to keep the surprises to yourself until you get to them.  I'm just curious. :)
Surprises of this nature are not as 'fixed' as you might think. Which animals, invasions, etc - those aren't fixed events, AFAIK. ...and as always, I'l be demonstrating 'reveal' at some point, so as to show the nature of the rock layers to players, so the rest kind of goes without saying.

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Step-by-step military build-out is probably one of those things. I'm always interested in which trade good people deploy. Which subsets of industry get set up, when, and why. Your philosophy of having haulers do all labors where skill only results in speed, not higher value, was an eye-opener to me. Those are the things I'm looking for.
I can't (nor would I) stop you - if you want to annotate both, feel free! I'm just suggesting you not throw yourself too far into the old version, and risk burnout. :)

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You prospect with long, straight hallways instead of the checkerboard patterns from QuickFort. I'd be interested in commentary on why.
Ease of use, wasn't aware there was an exploratory mining pattern in Quickfort. I'll take a look. The long hallways are because ore veins and clusters aren't generally small formations - they stretch out across a Z-level. You only need to hit one square of a vein to know it exists, and there's a distinct pattern/spacing to the position of clusters themselves. I'm sure my pattern (informal and loose criss cross) occasionally misses a small vein or two, but the modifications I typically make to site depth more than offset not finding Every Last Piece Of Ore.

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I assume you'll be covering DFHack workflow.
Yes. I cover this whenever it exists.

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I'd like to request ahead of time that you include your workflow limits in a script file as part of the distribution. This thread has some good ideas.
Can't help you with this one in the form you're requesting, I'm afraid. I really won't have one ahead of time, and my limits will flux repeatedly during the evolution of the fort - small limits on crucial repeat goods when fort is small and rough, larger limits as we move into full-bodied defensible fort, and still more limits as we hit trading in earnest, etc.

I could export the finished version, if you like?

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Just using vanilla worldgen, not PerfectWorld?
I've never really used PerfectWorld in the sense of "I understand how this works well enough to create desired circumstances on demand." I've created worlds with it, tinkered a bit, but have not gotten it figured it out to the level I understand it enough to demand a specific result. I've seen a description on how to use it to place a flat volcano - something I'd love to be able to do on demand in a given world once an otherwise 'perfect' embark is found - but I've never quite gotten it to work. It is, for instance, easier to find flat-sand-clay-flux-iron-othermetals-brook/stream on its own (itself a tall order - I often neglect sand, clay or iron to use something close) than to find them with a volcano, but the latter makes setting up a fort much more trivial for new players, with magma industry, especially with glass! Being able to find the former site and also be able to guarantee that I can drop a flat volcano into it? Priceless.

...but with all of those things on one site, all industries are covered. I can "map" the gamespace for new players, and not be forced to leave any "beginner level" topics out, and I can always use the magma sea if needed for that stuff.

I'll be diving /r/dfworldgen and the 2014 Worldgen thread first (why I came) to see if I can find a good one there for 40.13, and verify that it generates with aquifers off, phoebus installed, settings teh way I want them, etc. etc. I'll record the process of me embarking offline or ahead of time, if I can get everything else set up, and then I can post it without tying up part of the "play" stream with my preparations. To the extent possible, I want to keep the live stream on a more traditional definition of 'play' in the spirit of the event. Teaching via play is fine by me, but I'm not sure discussions of the RAW files and their tags lives up to most people's expectations. ;)

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Step-by-step military build-out is probably one of those things.
I always cover this when a tutorial fort runs long enough. It's not really as complex as it first appears, it's just not particularly intuitive how it all fits together without instructions. At some point (probably beyond the scope of the event stream) I'll need to demonstrate more advanced topics, like using patrols and defense burrows, but basic equipment, uniforms, schedules, training, care and feeding will certainly get covered - it's essential in v 0.40.13 to know how to defend yourself early and we'll be discussing defense early and often.
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jwhite.df

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2014, 03:24:37 pm »

Quote
I'd like to request ahead of time that you include your workflow limits in a script file as part of the distribution. This thread has some good ideas.
Can't help you with this one in the form you're requesting, I'm afraid. I really won't have one ahead of time, and my limits will flux repeatedly during the evolution of the fort - small limits on crucial repeat goods when fort is small and rough, larger limits as we move into full-bodied defensible fort, and still more limits as we hit trading in earnest, etc.

I could export the finished version, if you like?

Maybe just the syntax of the various items you usually use workflow to control? That's the headache for new users. What's the syntax for XYZ item?
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Nameless Archon

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2014, 09:21:37 am »

Quote
I'd like to request ahead of time that you include your workflow limits in a script file as part of the distribution. This thread has some good ideas.
Can't help you with this one in the form you're requesting, I'm afraid. I really won't have one ahead of time, and my limits will flux repeatedly during the evolution of the fort - small limits on crucial repeat goods when fort is small and rough, larger limits as we move into full-bodied defensible fort, and still more limits as we hit trading in earnest, etc.

I could export the finished version, if you like?

Maybe just the syntax of the various items you usually use workflow to control? That's the headache for new users. What's the syntax for XYZ item?
Newer version doesn't require you to know the syntax. :) gui/workflow, baby! I set them through the workshop job queue, not through the command line. :)
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scriberman

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2014, 12:43:09 am »

In my original reply message, added a partial transcription for video Part 07:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144721.msg5734531#msg5734531

Posted about the Reddit announcement as a new topic:
www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144944
Hopefully, this will bring more supporters. :)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 02:11:18 am by scriberman »
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scriberman

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2014, 06:56:37 am »

Cool. I think if we find and annotate the general things it makes sense to annotate, ....

Nameless Archon is just about to wrap up his 24-hour marathon.  Are you planning to start a thread for the annotation, or shall I?

He hopes to have the first parts on youtube perhaps on Sunday evening.

Edit:  I plan to begin working this morning on the basic text for his pre-embark video from last night, based on the twitch video.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 06:59:55 am by scriberman »
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jwhite.df

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2014, 12:38:41 pm »

Cool. I think if we find and annotate the general things it makes sense to annotate, ....

Nameless Archon is just about to wrap up his 24-hour marathon.  Are you planning to start a thread for the annotation, or shall I?

He hopes to have the first parts on youtube perhaps on Sunday evening.

Edit:  I plan to begin working this morning on the basic text for his pre-embark video from last night, based on the twitch video.

I figured to start it when the videos went up on YouTube.
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scriberman

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« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 08:02:21 pm by scriberman »
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Nameless Archon

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Re: Annotating Nameless_Archon's Tutorial Night [Advanced Beginners]
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2014, 12:33:50 pm »

Noted that the part 11/14 videos did not get exported to youtube, told twitch again to export those, should be ready in a couple of hours, depending on youtube/twitch. I'll be renaming and describing these in more depth shortly, don't panic if the names/descriptions change a bit.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to streamline your efforts.

Density here is a lot lower - I was concerned about having sufficient voice left to make it through the whole 24 hours, so there are likely longer stretches of silence, and a lower overall density of useful info. By part 12 or so, I'm half asleep. :)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:44:34 pm by Nameless Archon »
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