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Author Topic: Why don't dwarves use spears?  (Read 10382 times)

Agent_Irons

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Re: Why don't dwarves use spears?
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2014, 02:42:06 pm »

I imagine that against humanoid opponents of any kind any kind of strong shieldwall by heavily armored dwarves would be deeply effective in tunnels. Pike as well, might prove more effective than smaller weapons against large monstrosities of the deep, as it's more likely to reach the vitals of such creatures.
It would be fantastically effective against humanoid opponents, it's just that DF dwarves don't fight humanoid opponents very often. The pike doesn't allow as much energy deposited in the target as a big axe or hammer that can be swung in a big arc, especially for a short-armed dwarf. Dwarf-sized things like crundles or troglodytes spread out and flee/climb all over everything, and so a phalanx just can't chase them down without breaking formation. Blind Cave Ogres and things are huge enough to bowl through a phalanx and close to grappling range easily, so there's not much point in using one. Spears, yeah, but not a shieldwall.

All this being said, the real reason dwarves don't use formations is that they're not implemented yet. We had rudimentary formations in .31 if I recall, but now that we have morale I would be stunned if we didn't get swiss pike squares and phalanxes(phalanxi?) and all sorts of other crazy things. (Dwarven pyramid to reach taller foes? Two dwarves throw a third dwarf at the bad guy? Back-to-back axe buddies?)
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GavJ

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Re: Why don't dwarves use spears?
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2014, 03:18:09 pm »

Maybe lots of dwarves DO use spears in LOTR, etc., but they aren't in the popular image, simply because a spear phalanx member / lineman is generally not a hero character, more of a group defensive grunt.
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Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

loose nut

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Re: Why don't dwarves use spears?
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2014, 03:33:29 pm »

A phalanx of spears would beat anything that attacks it from the front in melee, so it would be nearly unbeatable in a tunnel where it can't be flanked unless it is something like a megabeast crashing into the formation.

I have maintained exactly this position in the past.

Additionally, spears can be employed with fortifications – bottlenecks, murder holes, and the like – to great advantage.

Two-handed swords, on the other hand, might have a lot of trouble, especially in a defensive tunnel with a low ceiling, or let's say it was constructed with columns spaced 3 feet apart.

Furthermore,

Quote
It would beat any army of humanoids with weapons that attack it from the front, which is basically zero percent of all dwarven threats.

This I do not understand unless threats have changed radically in the most recent DF; your main threats in ordinary biomes are goblin sieges followed by the occasional dangerous forgotten beast – cavern-dwellers are mostly pests though I'd agree a phalanx is not a very good answer to a GCS.
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Dirst

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Re: Why don't dwarves use spears?
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2014, 03:54:20 pm »

Two dwarves throw a third dwarf at the bad guy? Back-to-back axe buddies?)

Nobody tosses a Dwarf!
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