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[Brent Not Broken]

Is it just me, or is there a lot of difference in where things are?

I've dabbled in 40.0X just a bit, and it seems (based on 34.0X assumptions) I've dug down to where the magma sea should be, without hitting any caverns yet. I know this is probably just weird luck and missing the open spaces of the caverns while digging past them, but still-- I've done a couple fortresses in the new version and it seems like there's a lot more layers before the caverns start, more layers between them, just a lot more space underground in general.

What's the deal with the new underground layouts? Is there a set of ranges where I can consistently look for certain features, or not really? I haven't messed with any advanced worldgen parameters.

[PDF urist master]

I seem to find only two cavern levels, rather than three cavern level like 0.34. maybe caverns have been changed a little bit.

[celem]

How many caverns you have, as well as how many layers between them is a worldgen parameter you have some control over.

So I don't think anything actually changed per se with the caverns, perhaps you were using a specific set of parameters before and didnt transfer them to the new version?.

There should always be 3 unless you messed with the settings.  Theres a cavern count which ought be 3, as well as a series of parameters called something like layers above 1/2/3/4/5.  These decide how much space between cavern layers, how close to surface/sea etc.  I seem to recall that you can sometimes still be surprised if you embark right by volcanos/mountains as these can mess about with the subterranean layout.

[Pirate Bob]

Probably you guys know this, but the openings in caverns do not cover the entire x/y plane, so it is possible to dig through a (or even all) cavern levels without hitting the openings.  Also, sometimes messing with other settings besides the number of cavern layers can impact how many layers you get.  I forget exactly how, but I think something like if you set the magma sea to be above a given cavern layer, then you don't get that layer.

I think the first cavern level should appear about 10-15 levels below the surface, then the second at 20-30, and the third at 30-40.  However I'm sure others can give a more accurate number at where they are expected.  Also, I have *NOT* confirmed that this is unchanged in 40.XX, just commenting that your observations are not inconsistent with 34.11 behavior.

[Dorf and Dumb]

These folks clearly have not been keeping up with the latest advancements in radar.  You need to decide on where you're going to put your pastures and ponds in the caverns first, then dig into them.

Alternatively, I'd suggest you probably are using an even x even numbered embark and digging down right dead center in the middle, which is where you have the most stone.  The embark cells are 48x48, and if you dig down in the middle of one you're sure to find a cavern in a hurry.  I bet you were using odd x odd embark before so you were hitting the cavern every time.

[Iamblichos]

Also, experiments have demonstrated that the closer to the shore/flat plains you are, the more layers you tend to have between the surface/embark level and the magma sea, so the correspondingly more levels you have between the surface and the 1st cavern layer.

I have observed that in vanilla DF with vanilla settings, the "average" very deep soil embark has about 100-130 layers between surface and sea; "Average" little/no soil embark has about 60-80.  The caverns are sandwiched in there somewhere, though the third cavern tends to be fairly close to the magma sea (assuming no magma pipes, etc.)

Hope this helps!

[Saiko Kila]

If you embark on 4x4 (or similar, like 2x2) and then go to the centre and dig straight down then there is a really big chance that you miss caverns. I always do that on purpose, and sometimes find them but event then most of my big shaft is inside a stone, continuous pillar. But it isn't new in this version.