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[Sean Mirrsen]

It does make sense to use the crafting skills for those tasks.

The engraving skill would then define the initial quality of the image, and the crafting skill would apply a modifier to that, and seriously affect speed.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>You won't mine iron walls. The miner will simply tell you: "cancels mining: material too hard", especially if you're doing it with a copper pick. You can "mine" glass walls, destroying them, possibly leaving raw glass. "Mining" wood walls will also destroy them.</STRONG>

Sounds as though you are focusing too much on the name - a person should be able to deconstruct walls using the mining designation, so there is less redundancy. I'd even extend this to the Remove Upstairs/Ramps designation. Merge them all into one.

The required skills should be different, sure, but there's no point in having three Eraser tools.

[ November 19, 2007: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[mineditall]

is a carved stairwell better than a built stairwell?

one is placed with spare rocks and formed into a staircase (up/down)
the other is carved directly out of raw rock walls into stairs (up/down)

which should be indestructable?
if any

i think wooden and glass walls should be engravable
i can imagine a wooden wall with an ornate dwarf dancing on it
or a glass wall with a tree shaped into it

although if built stone/metal walls arent engravable that then does cause a problem

[Quintin Stone]

quote:Originally posted by Olix:
<STRONG>

Wouldn't it be a different skill set? I'm sure that engraving something in stone is totally different from carving it into wood, a etching it into metal. Maybe they could share the stone/wood/metal crafter skills.</STRONG>

I can see Toady making new different skills, as he's done with the crafting skills, or even using the existing crafting skills.  Either way is fine with me.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Mining and deconstructing as two separate options should be there. Because deconstructing a block wall and leaving the blocks intact requires some masonry skills regardless of wall material. If you don't want your miner to pay attention to the different walls, you'll just tell him to mine everything, and he'll use his pick to smash brick walls, glass windows, and the occasional wooden staircases.

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Gehn:
<STRONG>I do wish that if you had a soil material (like blocks of peat or sand) you could rebuild it as actual ground, rather than as a construction. As it stands, if there's a hole in the top layer of ground there will never be grass there.

It makes sense to not be able to put rock back together the way you found it, but it is easy to do this with softer materials like clay, peat and sand. You can't get those materials outside of block form through trading (so far as I know) but even when you acquire them this way, they just make a normal construction that won't grow crops, grass, shrubs or trees. It doesn't seem right to have sand (even blocks thereof) acting like a rock floor would.

[ November 16, 2007: Message edited by: Gehn ]</STRONG>

Sod!

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Sean Mirrsen:
<STRONG>Mining and deconstructing as two separate options should be there. Because deconstructing a block wall and leaving the blocks intact requires some masonry skills regardless of wall material. If you don't want your miner to pay attention to the different walls, you'll just tell him to mine everything, and he'll use his pick to smash brick walls, glass windows, and the occasional wooden staircases.</STRONG>

Now that just sounds annoying. Why would you want an option to destroy the wall materials?

Single designation, differing skills based on target = simpler.

[Align]

quote:Originally posted by Red Jackard:
<STRONG>
Now that just sounds annoying. Why would you want an option to destroy the wall materials?</STRONG>

Because rock blocks are very easy to come by, and good exercise for your masons too.

[Bumber]

Bumber gestures!
The thread shudders and begins to move!

I very much want this for a number of reasons. It would be very handy if we could build walls and collapse them down a few z-levels without deconstructing. (Cave-ins need to be reworked at some point, so maybe we can have certain materials and tile types break from falling different heights. Water and magma should probably provide enough resistance for safe descent.) This would allow us to fill in vertical shafts and dam large bodies of fluids without complicated obsidian casting. Being able to build dirt tiles would be useful for farming and aesthetics reasons. (I'm pretty sure farming will require water eventually, so we'll still have reason to utilize irrigation.) It could probably be possible to build rough stone for climbing and aesthetic purposes. Engraving is an obvious benefit.

Lastly, no more flashing Ns everywhere!

[GavJ]

Four abilities:

1) Construct rough wall - requires boulders or raw logs, etc., not blocks, makes something that looks like the natural stone (can also be wood, etc. though)
2) Construct smooth wall - should require blocks unlike now, and looks like smoothed material / the way constructed walls do now.
3) Mining - cuts through any wall quickly-ish (the word "mining" is abstract, including dismantling) but in exchange for speed, requires skill and pick.
4) Deconstructing - only undoes constructed walls (rough or smooth), slowly and without skill like currently.

Would be much more aesthetic, much less annoying, and reasonable.

[Bumber]

Four abilities:

1) Construct rough wall - requires boulders or raw logs, etc., not blocks, makes something that looks like the natural stone (can also be wood, etc. though)
2) Construct smooth wall - should require blocks unlike now, and looks like smoothed material / the way constructed walls do now.
3) Mining - cuts through any wall quickly-ish (the word "mining" is abstract, including dismantling) but in exchange for speed, requires skill and pick.
4) Deconstructing - only undoes constructed walls (rough or smooth), slowly and without skill like currently.

Would be much more aesthetic, much less annoying, and reasonable.

I think we can merge 1&2 and 3&4 in terms of designations. Just base the type of wall built on the material selected and the type of deconstruction on the material of the wall.

[GavJ]

Hm, yes on merging 1&2, that's a good point.

But I think you should be able to mine any wall, consturcted or not, for simplicity and more reasonable speed -- doesn't really make sense for a mortared wall to take 5x longer to tear down than a solid rock face, etc. Plus the annoyingness of separate designations.