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Author Topic: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.  (Read 1857 times)

RealFear

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 08:37:06 pm »

This could be a simple fix that makes it so tantrum dwarves will just go into a "brawl" conflict level with everyone around them.
This will make it so that they'll stop beating on a dwarf after he/she is unconscious or on the ground.
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Bastriastr

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 08:41:14 pm »

This could be a simple fix that makes it so tantrum dwarves will just go into a "brawl" conflict level with everyone around them.
This will make it so that they'll stop beating on a dwarf after he/she is unconscious or on the ground.

I like that idea. Eventually pain and tiredness would make things calm down, but if you didnt take measures to make your dwarves more content, this sort of rioting would eventually cause unhappy dwarves to leave for greener pastures.
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Dorf and Dumb

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2014, 08:57:52 pm »

A few happy thoughts are conspicuously missing.  To start with, when you get a pop-up window "you have struck adamantine, praise the miners", that ought to give every dorf in the fort a happy shot.  I mean, they're _dorfs_.  It's _adamantine_.  I'd think even lesser metal strikes might give happy thoughts to at least some of them.
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Arcvasti

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 09:05:20 pm »

Well, logically, happy thoughts on striking metal would be counterbalanced with unhappy thoughts upon striking microcline.
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Adrian

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 07:24:53 am »

Well, logically, happy thoughts on striking metal would be counterbalanced with unhappy thoughts upon striking microcline.
Don't hate on my glorious blue dining hall.

As far as tantrum spirals are concerned, maybe dwarves need some way of directing their anger. If Urist is tantruming because his brother Bomrek died of dehydration in the hospital, it should seem logical for Urist to be mad at the CMD.
Instead of flipping a random dwarf's table while he's eating, i mean.
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Iapetus

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 02:13:38 am »

And if a dwarf has been jailed/beaten (or had the same happen to a friend) because they failed a noble's mandate, they should get angry with the noble (and/or the guard or sheriff).

Eventually, Unfortunate Accidents might occur without player intervention :)
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Skullsploder

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 04:31:55 am »

I've had plenty of Survivors-Reclaim-the-Fort games, just because I invest a lot in happiness industries right off the bat. As in, high quality food, plenty o' booze, royal dining hall, high quality engravings everywhere, and some masterwork statues in high traffic areas. I've never had a tantrum spiral that destroyed the fort.

If you DO get a tantrum spiral, the best way to deal with it is to burrow all the miserable dwarves in a sealed room/forgotten corner of the map/cavern until they all die of thirst or the survivors begin to calm down. Everytime a dwarf gets miserable... TO THE BURROW.
Brutal, but it works :D
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Aquillion

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2014, 03:37:57 pm »

The entire thought system is likely to see some significant changes very soon anyway as it gets integrated into the system now used for adventurer mode NPCs.

Also, now that nonlethal fights are a thing, that will probably eventually make some tantrum situations less drastic, as I assume dwarves will initially brawl in a non-lethal manner.
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ShadowHammer

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 04:33:14 pm »

The thing with this is, it's on a much different scale than the modern society we're drawing comparisons to. Sure, maybe only 5 dwarves died, but if the fortress has a population of 100 dwarves, that's 5% of the population. Imagine what would happen if 5% of the population of a major city was killed all at the same time. I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of rioting.
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Neonivek

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 04:43:01 pm »

The thing with this is, it's on a much different scale than the modern society we're drawing comparisons to. Sure, maybe only 5 dwarves died, but if the fortress has a population of 100 dwarves, that's 5% of the population. Imagine what would happen if 5% of the population of a major city was killed all at the same time. I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of rioting.

10% is what you are looking for before it will irreparably damage the fort psychologically.

That is why "Decimate" is such an important term.
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Melting Sky

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2014, 05:35:14 am »

I've never managed to see a tantrum spiral but then again I am OCD about dwarven happiness levels. Can losing as little as 5 dwarves really cause a spiral in some cases?
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Skullsploder

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2014, 07:34:20 am »

I've never managed to see a tantrum spiral but then again I am OCD about dwarven happiness levels. Can losing as little as 5 dwarves really cause a spiral in some cases?

If you don't keep them idle then yeah, 5 deaths can cause a tantrum spiral. In my... second fort, I think, I had a tantrum spiral due to issues with varying water depth and dwarven suicidal tendencies pathfinding. Since it had a bloated population that did nothing but idle in the dining hall, making friends, those deaths led to the death of half the fort, and eventually I resorted to the burrow-them-in-a-corner method I mentioned earlier.

Basically, the more your dwarves know each other (that is, the more they idle together), the more likely a tantrum spiral is.
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Deboche

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2014, 09:16:01 am »

What sucks about it isn't how often they get sad or angry, it's the spreading. My fortress now is probably not gonna survive because there's always at least one miserable dwarf for whom food, drink, smoothed rooms and the great dining hall mean nothing.

He's a planter, I think. He was made sad by the violent tantrum of the woodcutter(who also attacked the merchants when the caravan came). The woodcutter was sad because the miner died of dehydration after running around for ages babbling and he was sad because of a melancholy dwarf who killed himself and so on, all the way back to a tiny invasion by a few humans in the early stages of this fortress.
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Dorf and Dumb

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Re: Nerf Tantrum spirals maybe just abit.
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2014, 12:29:14 pm »

Well clearly your dorf colony has no psychiatric health care.  A dorf who is xxx! needs to be walled someplace.  A dorf who is miserable is probably going to become xxx! so he should be walled someplace, or better yet, sent to pull a special lever.  It's amazing how many psychiatric conditions clear right up with the pull of a special lever.
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