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[BFEL]

Agarest?  I think I tried an hour demo of that.  The sorta tarot-card-style class picking thing seemed kinda neat, but it seemed kinda derpy, atmosphere(?)-wise.  Really bland shounen throwaway-flavor.

I've heard good things about Etrian Odyssey, also.  Haven't tried personally, but as I understand it's tough and unforgiving.

My only real problem with Agarest was that it was too damn grindy. I could deal with the silly otaku-y shit for the chance to play an RPG with eugenics, but DAT GRIND O.o I couldn't get past the second generation, even with the super cheaty DLC packs

[dwarf_reform]

Agh, I overall love super-grindy, as long as it continues healthily into end-game.. Now I've gotta check it out in depth and risk being embarrassed by playing it, haha I'LL CLOSE THE CURTAINS! I didn't really like the first couple Phantasy Stars, but whichever later one on Sega that had the animated team-mates popping into the screen for attacks was awesome (I remember a centaur the most..)..

[BigD145]

Hmm... SSI Goldbox RPGs are good too. They're really quite old, but they're good DnD dungeon crawlers. Also look at "Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession" and "Ravenloft: Stone Prophet".

You can't really mention SSI Goldbox without also mentioning Menzoberranzan.

[Yolan]

Going back to Ultima 7 now that I know you havent played it yet...

It is a revolutionary game. Origin really put a lot of effort into making a long and engaging story, and backing that up with plenty of lore drawing on an already long-running series filled with memorable locations and characters. But what is particularly amazing about this game is actually the technological achievement. You might think that as something produced in 1992 it is only relatively impressive and can't hold a candle to what we have today. Actually though, the way the U7 world is constructed is in certain respects superior to anything made ever since.

What am I talking about? It's the seamless living world. Outdoors, indoors and "underground" (inside mountains") is all one giant ass 2d plane, with upstairs layered on top for two story buildings. Within this world you have nine or ten cities/villages/settlements with unique NPCs living in them. Each of these NPCs is always in the world doing things according to a schedule. So, farming, cooking, eating, sleeping, etc. Go to a pub at a certain time of day in Britain, and various characters will actually be there eating while the serving people are serving them. Wait a bit longer, and they all head back home for a while before going to sleep.

A lot of this was implemented in Ultima 6, but they really perfected it in 7. Inventory management is also much easier and comfortable from a modern perspective, as the mouse is finally given free reign and takes over from the keyboard. If you use the exult mod, the resolution gets a nice boost so you can fit it to a modern monitor also.

http://exult.sourceforge.net/

[Zireael]

Hmm... SSI Goldbox RPGs are good too. They're really quite old, but they're good DnD dungeon crawlers. Also look at "Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession" and "Ravenloft: Stone Prophet".

You can't really mention SSI Goldbox without also mentioning Menzoberranzan.

Good point.

[Nelia Hawk]

not too sure if i should suggest it as it is 18+, but i will as it is a really good turn based tactic game "kind of" like final fantasy tactics:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kamidori Alchemy Master
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamidori_Alchemy_Meister

(yes it is a japanese hentai eroge game, but not one where after 5 min of playing everyone is naked... it easily can take 10/20/30+ hours of playing till any hentai content is shown.)

but i am not suggesting it for that... i suggest it because it is a really good turn and tile based tactic RPG kind of like final fantasy tactics.
you are an alchemist and fight monsters and collect materials to craft a ton of different things to sell in your shop in town, while you fight in dungeons and use crafted and found equipment for yourself+party.
it has a ton of quests (400+?) related to story missions or just "get 10 wood from the forest dungeon to repair the bridge", a bunch of quests are in a chain too... i.e. the bridge wood quest might opens up another quest to defend it some days later or so.
there is always something to do and not really that much "grinding the same dungeon 20 times" actually, you might need to do it a few times for materials but overall its not that bad, i would say at least.
the story isnt too bad either, concentrating on ranking up as alchemist and helping your party members and befriending different races.
it is a "very long" game... and is quite replayable, you can play it for 50+ hours, it has a few different main story routes and it has a new game+ mode that changes the game a bit and adds new characters.
there isnt anything "randomly generated" though, but you can revisit maps/dungeons and these revisit versions are a bit different then the story versions.

it looks something like this:
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk279/quocfx/Kamidori/6653e314.jpg
http://s15.postimg.org/l8hwnbmfv/CG000000.png
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/0SRm3pm3HgA/maxresdefault.jpg
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/la0b0yGhdTo/maxresdefault.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/UsopSama/2bcaa7ec.jpg

if you can "get your hands" on a english version "somehow", just play it... i highly recommend it.