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Author Topic: Why It Doesn't Work (Political Short Story)  (Read 2087 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Why It Doesn't Work (Political Short Story)
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 05:07:17 am »

The fact remains that even if a man is under any influence, the armed people around him should be able to keep the situation calm.
Uhm no, that's not how it works. Pulling a gun on a drunk person with a gun will not de-escalate the situation in any way possible. The presence of a gun simply turns what would have been a normal incident into a lethal fight.
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Trapezohedron

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Re: Why It Doesn't Work (Political Short Story)
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 11:43:30 am »

Apart from the irksome grammatical errors in the story, I find it naive that you assume the world to operate ceteris paribus, and thus, find your argument unconvincing. In your story, you give us two viewpoints, one where one has a gun, and one where only the criminal has it. Those stories play out exactly as one would expect they play in a perfect world, but there are a bunch of variables to consider about this. I'll bring up two.

1. Gun Control Policies
In one of your posts, you cited Switzerland as one of the countries who have done gun control correctly. But there is a reason for this gun control. Switzerland, as was stated here somewhere, has a militia. Swiss males are expected to undertake it at age 20, and they are taught the basics of gun safety, and even required to keep their army-issued weapon if enlisted, or a 9mm pistol if you're one of the law-governing units (police, etc.) at home. Also noted is that every single Swiss male is considered to be a militia reserve until the age 30. This gives Switzerland a different gun policy than most countries.

2. Law Enforcement
By this, I mean just how strictly your country enforces the law. Some countries find killing an individual a no-no, and you may be tried on court until you can prove it is entirely justified self-defense. Obviously, some people would find doing this much of a hassle if they're not directly involved in the situation, so not everyone with a gun could suddenly pop out and fire at a criminal. As far as I'm concerned, in the Philippines, killing is murder unless you can produce evidence to the contrary. A lot of us are below average the normal living standards, and thus we don't wish to see the court too often as it drains money way too fast.

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Reelya

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Re: Why It Doesn't Work (Political Short Story)
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2014, 08:08:13 am »

Plenty of problems with the OP. First, you set up contrived straw-man arguments. Which are a poor match for the real world:

- the cases where the hero fends off a villain are pretty rare. In fact, they're massively dwarfed by accidental deaths by household firearms and even more dwarf by preventable gun-related suicides. So those cases of home heroism are only valid if you discount all the times guns cause tragedy just by existing in the house. And that accounts for 2/3 of all gun fatalities in the USA.

- not only do they dwarf those heroic acts, accidental gun deaths and gun suicides from home weapons, also far outnumber armed intruders murdering people. 2/3 gun deaths in the USA are suicide. But you might retort with "yes, but they'd stab or hang themselves if they didn't have a gun" leading to the next point:

- when they stopped letting Israeli soldiers take their guns home on weekends, there was about a 50% drop in the total suicide rate for that nation, showing that access to a firearm does in fact turn fleeting suicidal thoughts into death. From that, we can estimate that about half the gun suicides in the USA wouldn't be suicides if they didn't have firearm access. That would knock 1/3 of the total gun deaths out straight away in the USA. Just having a gun in each house with an 18-21 year old male for 2 days out of 7 was enough to double the suicide rate in Israel, basically. We're not even talking every house all the time - just a small percentage of houses having guns in them 1/3rd of the time doubled the entire nation of Israel's suicide rate.

- Switzerland is in fact heavily regulated with the gun ownership. They have government-mandated training and oversight, government-issued weapons, government-issued ammunition, and periodic government checks that the weapon has not been fired nor bullets used. You can't just go to a shop and expect to buy a firearm or bullets in Switzterland. Not a good example of free ownership, in fact if it's a model, it's for total gun registration and monitoring.

- A lot more criminals have guns which were stolen from people's houses than all the heroes who have ever used home guns to stop criminals coming into their houses. The likely odds are that if a hero is in a shootout with an armed home-invader, that home-invader is using a gun that was stolen from another home-owner somewhere. You can't be in your house 24/7 protecting it. Break-ins happen.

- countries with strict gun control don't have rampant armed home invasion problems. Thus disproving your central point.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 08:21:46 am by Reelya »
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