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Author Topic: What to do with bronze  (Read 1457 times)

Eidre

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What to do with bronze
« on: March 18, 2014, 10:06:42 am »

Started yet another embark to try out some stuff...this time chose a very promising looking volcano-in-a-forest-untamed-wilderness embark that has both clay (unlimited wealth production and bricks from magma kiln) and marble (flux stone with a volcano?  Sweet!).

However, after a bit of prospecting I found that the "shallow metals" appear to be tetrahedrite, galena, native gold, and some cassiterite (found veins on two z-levels so far with exploratory mining).  So far, no iron ores.

So until I dig deeper it appears that I'm limited to copper and a limited amount of bronze for weapons and armor...which leads me to a problem I haven't seen before (since essentially all of my previous embarks have had some iron ore): if I have a limited supply of bronze, do I use it for spears, swords, and axes, or is it better used for armor?  And if so, should I use it for lots of helmets or a few sets of body armor?
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The Bastard of France

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 10:10:58 am »

If you use bronze for weapons focus on blunt weapons as bronze's best weapon characteristic is it's density (high density=better blunt weapons)
For armor it's largely personal preference but be careful with overloading as bronze is quite heavy and until your dwarves level up their armor user skill they will be very slow
I would recommend checking the DF wiki for details
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Button

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 10:59:34 am »

if I have a limited supply of bronze, do I use it for spears, swords, and axes, or is it better used for armor?  And if so, should I use it for lots of helmets or a few sets of body armor?

If I were you, I'd make a bunch of silver war hammers, and train all new recruits with those. Silver and copper are both better for blunt weapons than bronze is. You might want to make a few bronze edged weapons for migrants who already have weapon skills with edged weapons when they arrive.

So I'd focus on armor. As for slot, just make what you need. You'll be melting down goblinite into iron for steel-making soon enough that running out of cassiterite isn't likely to be a big deal.

Also remember, if you have bismuth on your map you can stretch your cassiterite a little further by creating bismuth bronze instead :).
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BoredVirulence

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 02:00:47 pm »

While not particularly useful for you, I mod my bronze to be better than it currently is, because bronze should be better than iron. I also make an alloy of bronze that is roughly equivalent to steel, because bronze is more dwarfy (IMO).

Honestly though, bronze is roughly equivalent to iron, I believe the cases where iron is better is documented on the wiki. Under most circumstances, bronze should work just as well as iron.

Eventually you will probably move to steel, either through goblinite or deeper iron, so you can either melt down the bronze for metal goods, or give them to your recruits until they earn their steel.
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Larix

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 02:29:40 pm »

What Button said - with galena, you have silver for blunt weapons, no need to spend bronze on those.

Bronze is a substantially better edged-weapon material than copper (and orders of magnitude better than silver), only really inferior to steel and candy. As armour material, it holds up well against _all_ metals that non-dwarven attackers can bring. I consider a healthy mix of both the best use of bronze: a handful of axes, swords and spears, and helmets, mail shirts and chain leggings from the rest. I'd also concentrate mining efforts on locating more cassiterite, there's usually more of it on the levels where you first found it, and sometimes also on neighbouring levels of the same geological make-up. If you can get hold of bismuth (e.g. bismuthinite imports), you can stretch your tin reserves considerably by making bismuth bronze instead.

Another option would be to concentrate on bronze serrated discs. Those are great for harvesting goblinite, which typically contains tons of iron.
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Roostre

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 02:32:49 pm »

I think bronze holds a better edge than iron does, yes. Make your bladed weapons with it, and make blunt weapons out of silver.

As for all that spare copper: a good application for large quantities of a metal you don't really need is to stud items with it. Just create the job "stud with x" once and put it on repeat, then watch as your trade goods take a big step up in value. It doesn't even require fuel like other forge reactions do.
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brokegamer

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 03:57:25 pm »

Another option would be to concentrate on bronze serrated discs. Those are great for harvesting goblinite, which typically contains tons of iron.

They also contain many ☼s which can be traded for more useful stuff.

But yeah bronze is about as good as iron, the major advantage iron having being the production of steel obviously. Iron having a few different ores though, you can ask for all of them from the mountain home's liaison providing your civ has access and smelt them yourself. If they bring four of three different iron ores that could be 48 bars of iron, best case scenario. Otherwise, nomnom goblinite.
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PDF urist master

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 04:25:57 pm »

most of your enemies are easily killed by bronze weapons as goblins don't come equipped with steel.

I think you should use bronze to mine goblinite so you can get steel.
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Redwood Elf

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 05:03:50 pm »

Real Life bronze may hold a better edge than iron, but it is MUCH more fragile (which is why the "Bronze age" comes before the "Iron Age") - Iron weapons needed to be resharpened more often, but didn't break nearly as much, and of course led to steel weapons later on.
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Sutremaine

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2014, 07:32:10 pm »

Your mineral scarcity seems pretty low, so it's likely that both the dwarves and the humans will bring iron. The first spring and second summer will bring enough iron for the bulky torso and leg protection, but if you can avoid fighting until the second autumn then a trade agreement can bring wagonfuls of iron goods. You don't need to request them at highest priority. I usually go for one notch across. Anvils can be requested at maximum priority, because of their predictable price -- they may have a high base value, but never come with quality levels or decorations.

Bronze is an acceptable armour material, but try and pick military dwarves that are strong, fast, or both. Use brown shields (leather and highwood are the only materials that qualify) and avoid plant cloth clothing. It's surprisingly heavy.

Alternatively, dig deeper and stay away from any blank areas 2x2 or greater. You should get enough material for leggings, which are the bulkiest of the armour items but cheap to make at 5 wafers.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2014, 08:04:21 pm »

Real Life bronze may hold a better edge than iron, but it is MUCH more fragile (which is why the "Bronze age" comes before the "Iron Age") - Iron weapons needed to be resharpened more often, but didn't break nearly as much, and of course led to steel weapons later on.
Iron is MUCH more common than copper/tin. Here in New Zealand, we have entire coastlines made from the stuff :P. It requires greater temperatures to refine and shape - so the technology to refine iron didn't exist until much later than that of bronze.
Of course, with the technology available, outfitting an army with iron is vastly cheaper than to give everyone bronze weapons and armour.

I think I had a point when I started typing this but I've forgotten what it is...
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Aslandus

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 12:06:15 am »

Whether to use a few full sets of armor or many sets that only cover "vital" areas like the head would vary with how big an army you want to have early on, head injuries do seem to be the most common way to die, but I've never sent my soldiers out with no armor but helmets before...
I don't actually know much about metal management I'm afraid... every embark I've had so far has had almost no military grade metal... The one I'm playing now only has silver -_-

Delioth

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Re: What to do with bronze
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 12:36:35 am »

I'd mostly agree with those above for the uses of bronze, but I'd like to point something out.

*snip*
Alternatively, dig deeper and stay away from any blank areas 2x2 or greater. You should get enough material for leggings, which are the bulkiest of the armour items but cheap to make at 5 wafers.

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