Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neyvn]

Hey guys, wasn't sure if there was a thread on something like this yet cause search came up with naught...

Anyway, I need a little help leveling my Pathfinder character, our party has a few holes in it due to an overpopulation of fighter characters (3 or so) leaving us low on Magic/Cleric characters. So I had been thinking that I would look into turning my Ninja (I went to fill the Rogue slot) into a Ninja/Sorcerer. But I am not 100% sure when or how to go about the multiclassing...

ATM we just reached level 3 in a slow leveling system so it might be a while before we hit 4.
He is a Kitsune Ninja, 10str, 17dex, 11con, 16int, 10wis, 20cha. With the feat Weapon Finesse which the DM allowed for the Wakizashi to be used with...
With a Ninja Ki Poop of 6, I chose the Ninja Trick, "Forgotten Trick", which allows me to use any Ninja Trick at an extra cost of 2Ki to activate it. Majorly consuming but useful in itself due to my already decided action of aiming to Multiclass and also aiming to gain the Kitsune Feats which in lack of a better word turns me into a 9 Tail Fox. Each Feat option I can grow a tail which in turn gives me a spell like spell such as control person and so forth...

Anyway, as I said, we just reached level 3, and I was thinking, should I go Sorcerer Multi now or wait till later???

[chaoticag]

Well, third level can work, but you gotta keep in mind what you wanna do from that point on I guess. Keep in mind that grabbing sorcerer now qualifies you for sorcerer feats, which you can pick now. Another thing to keep in mind is you'll get extra class skills, including use magic device, so that's another argument for grabbing the multiclass now.

It's gonna hamstring your ninja build in the long run, but you'll gain some versatility if you do decide to multiclass, and you'll never be as good as a pure sorcerer in spellcasting, but the combination of your stats and powers should make you formidable. Consider spells that make you a better ninja, and you'll be able to pull of more backstabs, and you're already going as something pretty magical to begin with. Grease is a good one for example, it doesn't grant combat advantage anymore, but you can use it to disarm some or trip a few people.

So yeah, don't see a reason why you'd not take sorcerer now, other than you'll have less hitpoints, and you'll miss out on some tricks, but you can be a pretty good sorcerer, just decide on whether you wanna focus on one or the other, since your spell DCs will suffer when you take ninja levels, and you'll have less tricks and BAB with more sorcerer levels.

[Neyvn]

Well, third level can work, but you gotta keep in mind what you wanna do from that point on I guess. Keep in mind that grabbing sorcerer now qualifies you for sorcerer feats, which you can pick now. Another thing to keep in mind is you'll get extra class skills, including use magic device, so that's another argument for grabbing the multiclass now.

It's gonna hamstring your ninja build in the long run, but you'll gain some versatility if you do decide to multiclass, and you'll never be as good as a pure sorcerer in spellcasting, but the combination of your stats and powers should make you formidable. Consider spells that make you a better ninja, and you'll be able to pull of more backstabs, and you're already going as something pretty magical to begin with. Grease is a good one for example, it doesn't grant combat advantage anymore, but you can use it to disarm some or trip a few people.

So yeah, don't see a reason why you'd not take sorcerer now, other than you'll have less hitpoints, and you'll miss out on some tricks, but you can be a pretty good sorcerer, just decide on whether you wanna focus on one or the other, since your spell DCs will suffer when you take ninja levels, and you'll have less tricks and BAB with more sorcerer levels.

Well Ninja already has the class skill of Use Magic Device, which I have been using to gain the ability to use Scrolls (grabbing a trait that allows me to use 2 cantrips, one being read magic). Other then my DM being completely oblivious to what the Ninja can do. That and the fact that our last few rounds made my chosen scrolls of 'colour spray' useless by having a dungeon of spiders and slimes (FFS), I have been thinking that our party truely needs a solid magic user...
The reason I am thinking to stick with Ninja for another two levels at least is 1: Sneak Attack boost, at third level its 2d6 and 2: At 4th level I get my hands on another Ninja Trick (which I may use as a bonus feat for another tail) and Uncanny Dodge...
Taking Sorcerer Multi on the 5th level... Still don't know how long it would take to get there atm though, it seems that its a level per dungeon but we fuff about a bit too much in his world. No set path or such too...

[chaoticag]

Ah, well, okay, I can see you might wanna stick with being a ninja for a while.

Still, might be worth going over this list here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/spell-lists---sorcerer-and-wizard

It gives more versatility in general, so it's kinda like having a trick or two up your sleeve. Not to mention you get spells which work off of ranged touch attacks, or ensuring you'd always have a sorta masterwork weapon on hand. Plus hey, level 0 cantrips such as acid splash mean you'll never be without a weapon ever again (though not too sure how useful it'll stay in combat terms, but you can use it on chains and ropes if you need to as well)

Anyway, hopefully that helps.

[Neyvn]

I've played a Sorcerer before (though only for a single run that ended) so playing as a Sorcerer is ok with me, been going over the Bloodlines too...

Thinking about Shadow Bloodline (Advanced Players Handbook) but not sure of anyother bloodlines that are out there that might make things go a bit smoother...

[Astral]

Shadow would go well with a Ninja, for the amplification of sneaky things. I've had some pretty good luck in a test campaign with a melee sorcerer using the Infernal bloodline, if you ended up forgoing stealth midway through battle and grow flaming claws after a weapon drop or fumble (since growing claws counts as a free action), along with some nice bonuses to resistances and strength.

If your DM isn't too picky, then Draconic or Abyssal would serve similar purposes of allowing you to get Sorcerer spells while remaining potent in melee, at the risk of becoming a Draconic Kitsune Ninja Sorcerer. Of course, on the opposite end of the roleplaying spectrum, the Accursed bloodline from Ultimate Magic may fit anti-thematically, or Maestro as a more crowd controlly type build for the odd Sonic attack and utility spells.

Personally never played a Ninja because they seemed a bit overspecialized with many of their abilities, and stuck with the good old Rogue since it got quite a few nice toys to play with in Pathfinder in the few games I did play last year. Of course, coming from someone who plays games to win (and never having played D&D proper beforehand), I may have slightly Munchkin'd my character's stats and abilities a bit. Didn't help my complete lack of ability to roll to save my life, though.

[Neyvn]

If your DM isn't too picky, then Draconic or Abyssal would serve similar purposes of allowing you to get Sorcerer spells while remaining potent in melee, at the risk of becoming a Draconic Kitsune Ninja Sorcerer. Of course, on the opposite end of the roleplaying spectrum, the Accursed bloodline from Ultimate Magic may fit anti-thematically, or Maestro as a more crowd controlly type build for the odd Sonic attack and utility spells.

While that sounds like fun, I would prefer to keep with backstabs and such, or maybe something that helps increase chance of crits...

[Neonivek]

Personally never played a Ninja because they seemed a bit overspecialized with many of their abilities, and stuck with the good old Rogue

I don't know for the most part they are almost exactly the same (especially since Ninja can just chose to take rogue feats) except that the Ninja is more mobile (I think)

[sambojin]

Ninja/sorcerors work well (I've played as a rogue/sorc a few times in d&d3.5. I'm assuming you're a tumbler, so try looking at expedituous retreat (or the pathfinder equivalent). It makes you a better ninja, can be useful in general adventuring and is a fun little spell. So much flanking, from anywhere......

Or try out one of the movement based cleric faiths (depending on your campaign's gods). +10 movement speed from longstrider for an entire hour is golden, movement based priest domain skills are great (I think there might be one that gives a speed boost anyway) and on-demand healing if you're good/neutral adds more to your repetoire of things to do. It's very powerful as a rogue/cleric, so a ninja cleric should work too. More versatile and more party friendly. Although you do miss out on some if the nicer cantrips.

Either one is good, make you a considerably better ninja, and give you room to boost either set of skills as you want. Caster levels really add a lot to ex. retreat and longstrider, any other spells and abilities are just ninja gravy.

[Fanofgaming]

Multiclassing in Pathfinder does not work very well unless you have a very good plan as to what you want to do. On top of that, multiclassing into arcane spellcasters very rarely pays off unless you're only doing it for one or two 1st-level spells; if you put all your levels into it from now until the end, you'll only just get 3rd-level spells by the time you're fighting CR9 or CR10 enemies. Trying to take it past Sorcerer 1 will almost undoubtedly cripple your character and there's a good chance that someone is going to get frustrated by it. The same is true for Cleric, as well.

[Neyvn]

Kinda why I was asking about this Fanofgaming. I never have done a multiclass before, even in the PC Baldurs Gate. So this is foreign grounds for me...

[sambojin]

I'm not totally familiar with pathfinder's rules, so you could be very right. But that one level of spellcaster does tend to make you more powerful at low levels than another level in your main class. You essentially have more ki points in the ninja's case, with the sorc being 2 specific abilities you can use regularly and the cleric being a generalist build. From a roleplaying perspective, the sorc is a far lighter to manage build, but this isn't necessarily good or bad. But it is easy.

Any option is good. I like the versatile nature of clerics and the rp opportunities it contains (one day you're healing the injured, the next you're buffing your allies, the next you're being as ninja'y as you can be, then you twaddle on about the divine nature of your kick-arse'ish-ness), but the sorc is a more powerful one level pick with few downsides for a light/no-armour class.

Expeditious retreat is as good for a ninja at level 3 as it is at level 10. Then pick what else you want and hope for the best. Annoy your DM and pick something illusion or charm based (ie, something hard to adjudicate) or grab true strike and win some archery comps against the peasants (or punch a dragon a couple of times and then run away). Rogue/caster-types really are good with 1-3 levels in multiclassing (although just one level is the most powerful option). Just pick something that is synergistic with your class, something that isn't and have fun with it.

edit: I was going to say to become a travel(exploration) cleric, then I saw your Wis was only 10. Pity, because you get so much cool stuff from it. Maybe consider it as a 4th level multi and choose wisdom as your stat boost? You get your sneak-attack boost still at third, then you get your spells at 4th. You move quicker (+10 feet to your base speed, so it stacks with everything), you can look through doors a few times a day (which is damn handy), get expeditious retreat as your domain spell (for more movement'y fun), then whatever other domain you want. I'm a fan of healing, magic(divine), community or nobility powers. How you'd mesh them into a belief format is up to you, but more healing or party-mini-buffs are always good. Trickery(deception) is awesome as well, being a free flank against most things, 3 times a day. Travel(exploration) + Trickery(deception) are very easy to mesh into a ninja faith, and make you so much more ninja'y it's silly. Plus you can heal a bit on the side if you want with channel energy(good) or change your spell load-out for RP downtimes. Or just be a ninja or ninja/sorc and be done with it. But clerics are more fun, engrossing, and after looking at a few of the domain powers, probably more powerful than a sorcerer for a one-level-multiclassing pick(far more so than in 3.5ed, there are so many domains in pathfinder..............)

[Neonivek]

A big reason why magic characters lose out is because Pathfinder is missing a VITAL multiclassing feat that 3.5 had.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Part of why multiclassing in PF is not so great is because there are good benefits for single-classing. Consider what you'll get out of that 20th level of Ninja vs. the one level in Sorcerer and Ninja will almost certainly win out. However, you're in an interesting place because you probably won't ever hit 20 because your advancement is so slow. Unless we're talking level 3 in 6 or so game sessions, in which case you could definitely hit 20.

Also consider that with your Ninja UMD ability you can spend money to have wands etc. made, giving you better spell use ability than you would as a Sorcerer - although with easy saves for your enemies to make. Check out the Sorc spells that don't allow saves and if those satisfy you, better to stay with Ninja.

All the feats you take to boost your casting are feats you aren't spending to boost your thiefy skills and combat ability.

I'd suggest trying to hire an NPC hireling type level 1 Cleric to give the group healing ability. Tell the guy he gets a full share of loot, he isn't expected to get on the front line or test doors, he's just there to help keep everyone conscious. Since you're still level 3, a Level 1 can survive ok. And by the time you hit level 4 he should be level 2, doubling his survivability.

[sambojin]

Anyway, sorry for editing my last post so many times. Spelling, reading the pathfinder SRD, etc.

I'd recommend going cleric as your third or fourth level. With 10 Wis, you'll only get the orisons as a third level pick, but either Stabilize or Virtue is fine. Grab any other you want. The real power of the multi-class pick is the domain powers. And a wee bit of healing if you want to help your warrior types. Travel, or Travel(anything) is good, because there are so many abilities that ninjas or rogues use that require positioning or base speed (or enhanced speed). There are a lot of situations that are considered difficult terrain in Pathfinder, so just basic Travel may be the most useful (although, looking through doors is cool, plus it gives Expeditious Retreat rather than Longstrider). Trickery(Deception) is friggen awesome, and lets you utilize battle tactics that would be considered broken in any other game. Even "wait" options make this good. With any type of party coordination, if the enemy misses, you can flank (and potentially ninja trick or sneak-attack them to death, 3 times a day).

If you choose this at 3rd level, you get a bit of healing, some handy domain powers, some mini-spells and nothing else. As soon as you put a point into wisdom (at fourth level) you become a ninja god. You can just as easily (and more powerfully) choose another level of ninja at 3rd level, and then point into wisdom and be a Travel + Trickery(deception) cleric at fourth. Either way, ninja god. It depends on how you want to RP it. +Sneak attack damage, or situational goodness.

It's not a horrible idea to level into cleric once or twice after this either. Length of spells = good. There's also the "big battle" option, being Anything + Magic(divine) domain. Probably Travel(exploration) or Trickery(deception) with the magic domain option. When you cast Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider at the start/middle of a battle, it's a Kiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!! rush for your party. Pretty cool. Works with heals too. Any divine boost, plus extra boosts for a turn.

Anyway. Sorcerers are easier, but clerics are awesome. Very awesome.

ALWAYS make sure your wisdom is higher than 10 in Pathfinder, just in case you want to take a level of bad ass.

edit: yep, edited again. Next time, just make sure you have 12 Wisdom, heaps of Dex, and multi-class however you want. After reading the ninja class, I'm still not sure of the ki points of everything. Meh, whatever. A lvl 2 (1/1 rogue/cleric) would still make a better ninja than a lvl 4 ninja. It's even core-rule-book-a'fied. Without barely-used-weird species or classes. It's more broken as a leveling ninja/rogue with that lvl 2 cleric boost, regardless of foxes and stuff. Just make sure any character has Wis 11+, learn to RP any annoying situation the GM throws at you, and feel the power. Clerics>Sorcerers. As long as they're allowed. Sorcs are easy to fit into any world though.