Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Thief detection through windows?  (Read 1150 times)

Pinstar

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Thief detection through windows?
« on: October 11, 2013, 08:40:02 am »

Can a dog situated behind a glass window still detect sneaking enemies? What about glass floors for enemies one Z level below them?
Logged

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 08:46:09 am »

Glass floors are still opaque like all floors (though it would be cool to have transparent floors), I don't know about windows as I haven't played around with them.
Logged

PaleBlueHammer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 10:04:52 am »

Can a dog situated behind a glass window still detect sneaking enemies? What about glass floors for enemies one Z level below them?

My idea was to wall in a vampire on a glass floor constructed above the main entrance.  I had everything constructed and was trying to get the vamp into position before I read that the floors weren't transparent.

My current fort I plan to make outposts stocked with vampires (or birds, easy to breed multiple chicks from one nest box) as lookouts.
Logged
Quote from: misko27
If adamantine is revealed for more then 2 years without being completely mined it all turns into galena. Useless, Useless Galena.

acetech09

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 10:49:46 am »

Floor grates are transparent.
Logged
I challenge you to a game of 'Hide the Sausage', to the death.

Hague

  • Bay Watcher
  • How do I shot web?
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 11:26:06 am »

Grates and floor bars are both transparent and allow units to see through them. Your best bet is to just wall the whole thing in with glass windows on the ground layer. You would need a support system to make a sort of "floating cage" for a pet. Problem is that glass windows need a floor to support them so your pet will not be able to look underneath adjacent tiles, only through the floor grate.

Another alternative is to make your entrance hallway have an area above or below with visibility to the hallway through grates or bars that stores all your doggies . If something walks underneath or above this area, they should get spotted. Though, I'm not even certain animals can spot ambushers between z-levels. Personally, I just set my elite soldier barracks in a gatehouse beyond the depot so ambushers get spotted immediately outside and wiped out rather quickly.
Logged

smjjames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 11:33:41 am »

Also, archers can shoot through the floor grates or bars.
Logged

darkrider2

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 11:46:49 am »

IIRC, sneaking units (in fortress mode) are only revealed when they are adjacent to another creature (including other hostiles). So seeing one through a window is not going to work.

I just had an idea, drop a bunch of goblin invaders into a room that is sealed by locked doors, behind one locked door is a path to the outside, the other a path into the fort proper, since kobolds ignore locked doors for pathing, they'll attempt to walk through the horde of goblins, who will detect and mutilate the kobold immediately.
Logged

UnlawfullyDeranged

  • Bay Watcher
  • For every one, there will be one hundred more.
    • View Profile
    • 'Best War Animals'  'Clocks'
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 02:25:02 pm »

IIRC, sneaking units (in fortress mode) are only revealed when they are adjacent to another creature (including other hostiles). So seeing one through a window is not going to work.

I just had an idea, drop a bunch of goblin invaders into a room that is sealed by locked doors, behind one locked door is a path to the outside, the other a path into the fort proper, since kobolds ignore locked doors for pathing, they'll attempt to walk through the horde of goblins, who will detect and mutilate the kobold immediately.

Same thing, but with war dogs? Or magma? Or spike traps?
Logged
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Just no cheesemakers.

Merendel

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 03:05:23 pm »

Personaly I just chain up a disposable animal at the entrance.  Any stealthers will get revealed at the entrance if they try to get by it or kill it.   Ya I've got to replace the bait every so often but dogs and birds breed so fast who cares :P
Logged

Broken

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 03:17:46 pm »

Chain a ward dog 1 Z-level over the entrance, above a floor gate. It will catch all thieves without fail.
Logged
Quote
In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
Dwarf fortress: Tales of terror and inevitability

EvilBob22

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 04:27:59 pm »

IIRC, sneaking units (in fortress mode) are only revealed when they are adjacent to another creature (including other hostiles). So seeing one through a window is not going to work.
It depends on the lookout (I think it uses the observation skill?).  I often build 3x3 towers with windows 1 z level above where the sneaky guys would be, and then pasture a male bird or pig in them.  They don't always spot the sneaking enemies, but it definitely does happen.

I'm liking the idea of the "scout" spotting through a floor grate though, at least for the entrance.  If they have an escape route and are pastured (instead of chained), you'll probably lose less to archers too.
Logged
I will run the experiment to completion anyway, however. Even if the only reason why there is a punctured equilibrium in the fortress is because I have been brutally butchering babies
EDIT: I just remembered that dwarves can't equip halberds. That might explain why the squads that use them always die.

Urist Da Vinci

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NATURAL_SKILL: ENGINEER:4]
    • View Profile
Re: Thief detection through windows?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 09:30:49 pm »

Also, archers can shoot through the floor grates or bars.

No, they can't. Go try it yourself in adventure mode if you want proof. Just find a sewer grate in a human town and try to shoot through it. It won't work. Doesn't happen in fort mode either.

IIRC, sneaking units (in fortress mode) are only revealed when they are adjacent to another creature (including other hostiles). So seeing one through a window is not going to work.
...

The stealth detection area is a 7x7x7 cube centered on the observer, blocked by line-of-sight objects. So you can detect creatures:
1 tile away (next to you)
2 tiles away
3 tiles away
A creature floating in midair 3 tiles north, east, and above you.

BUT NOT:
4 tiles away.

For proof, test this in the arena with creatures with various levels of ambusher and observer. Toady will be changing the stealth detection mechanic in the next release to be more realistic.