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[Pinstar]

I have an idea for a front entrance trap that still allows caravans to pass, but I'm not sure how one aspect would work:

E=Entrance to Fort
#= low quality weapon trap (meant to cause foes to dodge)
*=spikes
~=Channeled out pit leading to floor of spikes
W=Wall/Fortification
D= Pastured War Animal for stealth detection
M= Marksdwarf squad


              M
WWWWWWWWWWWW
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E##############
E**************** D
E##############
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WWWWWWWWWWWW
             M

The idea being that a lever (located safe inside the fort) would control the line of spikes down the middle...as well as the spikes at the bottom of the pit. They would normally remain up, but could be lowered to allow the passage of a caravan and/or to harvest corpses and equipment from the spike floor in the pit after an attack.
I would have a melee squad stationed deeper in my fort to deal with invaders that survived the gauntlet.

I know what will happen if my enemies dodge into the pit of spikes...but what happens if they dodge into the row of spikes in the middle? Will they still be just as harmful to the enemy even though they're on the same Z level and have horizontal rather than vertical momentum? Or will they just harmlessly bounce off?

Bonus 2nd Question:
If all my W's were fortifications and I had marksdwarves stationed on either side, would the cross-fire of bolts potentially cause the enemy to dodge even more than just the traps alone? (aside from the bolts that actually end up killing them outright)

Bonus 3rd question: How many z-levels of a drop do I need to ensure instant death to anything that falls off the land bridge?

[WanderingKid]

I have an idea for a front entrance trap that still allows caravans to pass, but I'm not sure how one aspect would work:

E=Entrance to Fort
#= low quality weapon trap (meant to cause foes to dodge)
*=spikes
~=Channeled out pit leading to floor of spikes
W=Wall/Fortification
D= Pastured War Animal for stealth detection
M= Marksdwarf squad


              M
WWWWWWWWWWWW
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E##############
E**************** D
E##############
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WWWWWWWWWWWW
             M

This won't work.  You need a 3 wide trapless path for the carts to get to you on.  The mounted merchants can go over this just fine, but not carts.

Bonus 2nd Question:
If all my W's were fortifications and I had marksdwarves stationed on either side, would the cross-fire of bolts potentially cause the enemy to dodge even more than just the traps alone? (aside from the bolts that actually end up killing them outright)

Yes.

Bonus 3rd question: How many z-levels of a drop do I need to ensure instant death to anything that falls off the land bridge?

I've heard it said 20-25 Zs, but I haven't confirmed myself.

[Pinstar]

Dang! Hmmm what if I did something like this:


              M
WWWWWWWWWWWW
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E###############
E---------------------
E--------------------- D
E---------------------
E###############
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WWWWWWWWWWWW
             M

With ---- being a retracting drawbridge suspended over the pit.

Even with the bridge retracted, I would still want to keep my entrance open to entice invaders to try to come in and hit my gauntlet of dodge traps and crossbow crossfire.


Also... I would need a 20-25 z level drop just to kill them with spikes at the bottom? I'm not looking to explode them into body parts, just make them dead.

[WanderingKid]

Dang! Hmmm what if I did something like this:
With ---- being a retracting drawbridge suspended over the pit.

That would work but you'd have to keep your bridge open for the caravans the entire time they're slowly dragging their way to you 3x per year.  Usually you build something that's an S-path for the caravans with trapped shortcuts for invaders, so you can just leave it open.  The shortcuts are the fastest method so they cut across the middle and get themselves gutted that way.

Also... I would need a 20-25 z level drop just to kill them with spikes at the bottom? I'm not looking to explode them into body parts, just make them dead.

Spikes aren't guaranteed to kill. They help.  The fall is what you have to try to ensure kills them, and thus explosion of pieces.  Honestly, mess around with it and see.  A 2Z fall into repeating spikes will kill just about anything eventually.

[Pinstar]

You've been very helpful.

One more series of questions:

Say one Z-level up I had a waterfall flowing over top and down the Walls/fortification and into the pit (on both sides)

1. Would the waterfall mist reach dwarves travelling across the middle to give them good thoughts and/or clean them?
2. Would waterfall mist benefit the marksdwarves?
3. Would the waterfall impede the accuracy of the marksdwarves?
4. Would the waterfalls cause any job cancel spam for either the marksdwarves or anyone walking across the middle?

[WanderingKid]

Say one Z-level up I had a waterfall flowing over top and down the Walls/fortification and into the pit (on both sides)

1. Would the waterfall mist reach dwarves travelling across the middle to give them good thoughts and/or clean them?

Not at the distance you're presenting.  The water has to practically fall on them for cleaning.  Good thoughts I believe are a few boxes away, but I'm not sure.  My mist generators are usually right on the path.

2. Would waterfall mist benefit the marksdwarves?

Not really.

3. Would the waterfall impede the accuracy of the marksdwarves?

Unfortunately, I have no idea.

4. Would the waterfalls cause any job cancel spam for either the marksdwarves or anyone walking across the middle?

It's possible, it depends on how much water you've got going.  Also, you want to be REAL careful if you're going to waterfall the center access.  Water, even 1Z high, when flowing can push dwarves around.  Your drainage would be into the spike pits.  Recovering caravan goods from there could be difficult at best.

[MDFification]

Concerning making an entrance that lets merchants in but not invaders;
Gobbo's take the shortest route to your dwarfs/creatures, which means you can exploit their pathfinding to make a multi-purpose entrance.
Make a rather long (don't skimp on this; the longer it is, the safer you'll be) detour for the wagons to follow. So long as the trapped path is shorter, gobbos will follow it. Keep your dwarfs and animals off this longer path or they may attract gobbos, allowing them to bypass your defenses.
To be safe, chain up an animal at the end of the trapped path somewhere gobbo archers can't see it. A wooden door at the end of the trapped path will also attract building destroyers, like trolls, that gobbos sometimes bring on their sieges.

That being said, it's easier to just make two separate entrances and block the trader one during sieges. Still, easier isn't dwarfier, now is it?

I've done something like the trap you're suggesting. My spiked pit is 7 z levels deep, which smashes most invaders. It's a good idea to make an exit to the pit that leads straight back to the beginning of the trap, forcing invaders to circulate through the trap again... and again... and again.

[Grey Goo]

If you feel being sadistic, make your gauntlet run in such way that first drop don't kill. It drops just into area where from only exit is through another gauntlet. Only your imagination, time and sadism are limits!..

[Pinstar]

If you feel being sadistic, make your gauntlet run in such way that first drop don't kill. It drops just into area where from only exit is through another gauntlet. Only your imagination, time and sadism are limits!..

Actually, what I had in mind was rathe than spikes...if I had my waterfalls going, the bottom of the pit would simply be floor grates. Invaders would plummet to their deaths (I'd make the pit extra deep to ensure corpse explosion). Then have my dwarves come in and loot the bodies of anything useful, then pull a leaver connected to the floor grates and dump the corpses and useless equipment out with the waterfall waste water.

Buuuuuut since I'm still newish I think I'll stick to a spike tap at the bottom and skip the waterfalls for now.

My other thought was to have the 'pit' only be 1 z-level deep but FULL of wall to wall cage traps. After a siege I just strip the prisoners then dump them into another room behind fortifications as living archery targets since shooting live targets gives my marks dwarves much more experience. Just because I've taken their equipment does not mean they cease to be a resource


EDIT:

One more question going back to the "Traders need 3 tiles wide of trapless squares"

Do Closed Floor grates/Floor hatches count as 'trapless'?

[Maw]

If you feel being sadistic, make your gauntlet run in such way that first drop don't kill. It drops just into area where from only exit is through another gauntlet. Only your imagination, time and sadism are limits!..

If? What do you mean... 'If'?

[WanderingKid]

EDIT:

One more question going back to the "Traders need 3 tiles wide of trapless squares"

Do Closed Floor grates/Floor hatches count as 'trapless'?

Lacking an official answer, you get my noobish answer: AFAIK, yes, it's trapless... but test anyway.