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[weenog]

I need to move some magma near to the surface.  I have only 8 dwarfs, and no power.  I can't get power because there is a total lack of subterranean water, and I dare not open holes to the surface for windmills because millions of zombies.  (Actually it's not millions, I'm down to only 144 of them before my corpse crusher was broken by an oversized zombie.)  I'm pretty bad at controlled cave-ins, so a magma piston isn't really viable.  I'm thinking minecarts may be my best solution.

I need to know,

• Can impulse ramps provide enough force to raise an iron minecart full of magma?
• How many impulse ramps would I need per z-level of elevation?
• Is a dwarf's Push sufficient to make the first derail happen, on level ground?
• Do the impulse ramps need adjacent walls, like the climbing ramps do?

[nanomage]

I need to move some magma near to the surface.  I have only 8 dwarfs, and no power.  I can't get power because there is a total lack of subterranean water, and I dare not open holes to the surface for windmills because millions of zombies.  (Actually it's not millions, I'm down to only 144 of them before my corpse crusher was broken by an oversized zombie.)  I'm pretty bad at controlled cave-ins, so a magma piston isn't really viable.  I'm thinking minecarts may be my best solution.

I need to know,

• Can impulse ramps provide enough force to raise an iron minecart full of magma?
• How many impulse ramps would I need per z-level of elevation?
• Is a dwarf's Push sufficient to make the first derail happen, on level ground?
• Do the impulse ramps need adjacent walls, like the climbing ramps do?

First of all impulse ramps are insanely powerfull and cannot be switched off, therefore they're very dangerous, moreso with magma. 5 or so of them would probably send carts flying and make them tumble and shoot magma on contact with an obstacle. Now to the topic:
1. yes, most likely it'll raise the cart several levels. You know, DF doesn't really honor energy conservation, so the energy acquired by going a z-level down if sufficient to climb several levels up.
2. I suppose it would be in the range between 0.2-0.4, though more testing is required.
3. Yes, that's how you start the things
4. Yes they do and the wall needs to be put in place before the ramp iirc.


EDIT: ugh, having reread your post I think now that you're better just making your dwarves haul some minecarts of magma to the surface. Assuming you want to power workshops, you only need two of them per workshop. Dwarves will haul the minecarts manually between two stops if they're not connected by tracks. Minecart helix with impulse ramps would be a far too long project for 8 dwarves to build.

[weenog]

I can have dwarfs haul full minecarts of magma without setting them aflame?

Powering workshops near the surface would be nice, but I actually need something that can permanently dispose of zombies, and won't break on a big one like the last corpse crusher did.  I plan to make a pit/dump (several z-levels deep to avoid the splash hazard) with a lever activated upright spike trap at the bottom, using magma-safe spikes and mechanisms, and submerged in magma.  I can throw dead bodies and body parts in there to burn them away, and if they happen to reanimate again before they burn up (or if I have to throw one in there already active), I can put them down again with the spikes.

[Crashmaster]

I've read that magma was somewhat ineffective at burning zombies for some reason.
Might be outdated info though.
I intended to try magma mist for incinerating the undead, but got distracted before rebuilding it in a reanimating biome. At least it shows some details of impulse ramp operation for raising carts you might chain/ modify. The loading of magma into carts might also be workable/ repeatable using this simple design as well but it wasn't intended/ tested that way. Mostly self promotion/soliciting some sucker to test it I guess.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115875.msg4443319#msg4443319

at least links to related

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128996.msg4431472#msg4431472
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129453.msg4461651#msg4461651

I haven't made one yet though.

[weenog]

I've read that magma was somewhat ineffective at burning zombies for some reason.
Might be outdated info though.

Heat kills living creatures by fat melting, which is represented as bleeding.  Zombies don't really bleed, so it can't kill them.  Reanimating biomes don't reanimate immediately, though, which means if I put them back down there's some time for them to burn away as inanimate objects.

[WanderingKid]

I need to know,

• Can impulse ramps provide enough force to raise an iron minecart full of magma?
• How many impulse ramps would I need per z-level of elevation?
• Is a dwarf's Push sufficient to make the first derail happen, on level ground?
• Do the impulse ramps need adjacent walls, like the climbing ramps do?

If you check my sig, those two links will probably let you know everything you need to know.  However.

Iron Minecart full of magma: Yes, provided you can get it OUT of the magma.  This is the one place I haven't explored impulse ramps completely.  Once the cart is free all carts act pretty similarly.  I recommend testing it with 2 impulses to get one ramp up unless you can get a single wide ramp to work.  IE: Track down, impulse, impulse, track up.  Should act pretty similar to water if you want to test the design.  Actually, I need to do that at some point.  I'll let you know if I do.

1 Impulse/2 zs.  Do NOT use the one on the wiki unless you want derails and/or rocking horses.  It is, at best, unpredictable.  In the elevator you want: flat turn, impulse ramp, upward curving ramp, straight upward ramp, repeat.

Yes.  Easily.  You won't derail a turn from a dwarf's push, but you'll easily skip onto the impulse ramp.

Yes.  They don't need an open space above them but I recommend it to shunt speed problems out of a rocking horse scenario.  Trust me, you just don't want to go there unless your hospital needs a lot of training.

Edit: Easiest way for a 'carried' minecart is to setup a 3 stop route.  First one is the push into the magma.  Second is a non-dumping track stop after it's loaded.  Third one is way up wherever that you have dorfs guide it to (basically, up your stairwell) to the track stop dump.  Then they guide it again down to the first place.  Doing that with a metal minecart is painful to watch, but can be done.  If you can, get nethercap wood for minecarts so they're a lot lighter and still magma-proof.  I still recommend the elevator.

[laularukyrumo]

Nethercap minecarts are NOT, in fact, magma-proof. I found this out the hard way.

[weenog]

Cart stuck in the magma.  Will smacking another cart into it move it?

[WanderingKid]

Cart stuck in the magma.  Will smacking another cart into it move it?

  Yes, usually.

[weenog]

Think I'll save the inevitable cart rescue train for a non-work night.

Hmmm... surprising that this fortress is 8 years old, I'm still struggling to open it to the surface without dying horribly, and I haven't gotten bored or fed up with it yet.  I'll have to thank my girl for picking this godawful hellhole as my embark site.

[fricy]

Poweless impulse ramp magma retrieval: down ramp, southeast impulse ramp, up ramp. Build a bridge north of the imp.ramp to the magma sea, and somehow it will let your minecart escape the magma-pit (9 times out of 10), no need for a second cart to push the first cart out.

And my Perpetual motion elevator: up ramp, flat track, up ramp, flat track, up ramp, flat track, etc. Accelerate a cart at the starting position to escape speed (›72k speed - about 7 imp.ramps depending on the starting speed), and it will ignore the up ramps and go up any levels without slowing down.