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Author Topic: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)  (Read 1464 times)

Random_Dragon

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Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« on: June 16, 2013, 08:59:17 pm »

So recently I'd been pondering some modding-related ideas, and decided to try an experiment in civilization modding, mainly seeing what happens when you take the civilization as-is and simply port the tag used to make them playable in fortress mode. So this is basically a look at just how broken the game gets when you make an enemy-only civilization playable.

My initial observation was that the list of things available on the embark screen was...schizophrenic. Trolls cost a single point each, likely because they lack a defined pet value. The default pair of battleaxes on the embark list were also replaced with great axes, though looking through the item list revealed you can still get battleaxes if you want. The list also lacks various essentials, and the options for food/drink are very limited. Good thing they don't need food or drink.

My first attempt also was hindered by a complete lack of nobles, including militia leaders. So no squads. This was just too ungoblinlike to let slide, so I went back and modded in the appropriate positions before regenning. I added a few other basics, even though a proper goblin civ really only needs the ability to murder things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So far their lack of hunger and thirst makes them low-maintenance compared to dwarves, but they still need clothes and sleep. With plentiful statues and some one-tile bedrooms (on an engraved floor), the only one I've had dip into unhappiness was my starting bowgoblin, a month after I drafted her and realized that I forgot to embark with some greaves, as I made her replace clothing with armor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One other thing I discovered to be broken was the animal screen, as the only available sort of pet (trolls) lack the pet or pet_exotic tag. I opted to fix this, and as a bonus make them trainable. And if they'll ever breed (it's just now winter of the first year) my change to the child tags will make them grow up faster.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One thing I'm mildly worried about is clothing. My trolls have yet to breed or even regrow their fur since I sheared them sometime in the spring, and until they start breeding I don't want to make butcher any, and I wasn't able to embark with any cloth seeds. While I have a trade depot, I doubt anyone will come. I've had a goblin diplomat arrive in the summer and autumn, so I'm hoping maybe they'll start arriving either later this winter or next year. Until then, I've start gathering local plants in an attempt to snag some rope reed. After all, nudity may well be the only thing that could potentially piss these guys off.

On a related note, building above-ground without making tons of blocks is painfully slow, making it hard to live like proper goblins instead of smelly, dirt-dwelling dwarves. If I get a higher population I might turn my 2-story archery tower into a properly gobliny dark fortress or towerlike...thing.



So, any thoughts?
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Gentlefish

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 10:53:04 pm »

do the trolls still have [CAN_LEARN]? They'll have to pair up before they mate, then. I think that was the tag, anyway.

Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 11:24:52 pm »

do the trolls still have [CAN_LEARN]? They'll have to pair up before they mate, then. I think that was the tag, anyway.

Ahah, that might be the problem.

On a related note, middle of winter and the trolls are back to being fuzzy again. So just under a year of time needed for regrowth, it seems?
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 10:17:03 am »

And now an update. Spring has arrived it seems, and Pufferfish's suggestion has paid off with a single troll being born so far.



Diplomat arrived in winter as well, yet still no caravan. It's possible that only dwarven caravans are coded to arrive in the first year, so assuming goblin caravans exist I hope to see them next year. It might be interesting to start a second world with goblins and dwarves on friendlier terms, to see if the dwarven caravan will still arrive in the first year when you play a different civilization. And on a related note, the diplomat uses the same lines as the dwarven one.  :P

And last but not least...some things transcend cultural boundaries. Even amoral, demon-worshiping, baby-snatching monsters like cheese.
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chevil

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2013, 10:41:46 am »

Who doesn't like cheese.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 11:14:54 am »

Who doesn't like cheese.

Whiny little elves, presumably. o3o
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smakemupagus

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 02:23:58 pm »

I think that vanilla goblins don't have PACK or PULL animals, so you may never see a caravan from your civ unless you tweak that.

Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 03:21:30 pm »

I think that vanilla goblins don't have PACK or PULL animals, so you may never see a caravan from your civ unless you tweak that.

Ahah. This is relevant to my interests.  :D

In the meantime...shear faster, you idiots. D:
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CriticallyAshamed

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 06:55:13 pm »

I'm fairly confident you can get a Goblin Caravan in vanilla as dwarves it brings lots of iron and corpses if you are actually at peace with them (usually by removal of [babysnatcher] I'd suspect). Maybe that has been changed since I last looked though.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 08:40:44 pm »

I'm fairly confident you can get a Goblin Caravan in vanilla as dwarves it brings lots of iron and corpses if you are actually at peace with them (usually by removal of [babysnatcher] I'd suspect). Maybe that has been changed since I last looked though.

From what I've seen so far, it seems now that it doesn't occur normally because their only readily available animal, trolls, lack the required tags to serve as pack animals (either WAGON_PULLER or PACK_ANIMAL, plus possibly TRADE_CAPACITY). I'm hoping now that I've added the required tags, if the diplomat shows up alone again I'm gonna be pissed.

Good news so far is I've made first contact with elves and kobolds, so things are going to get Fun sooner or later. Bad news is I derped and made hundreds of elf bone bolts, when I've been training bowgoblins. Doh! >.<

If that caravan ever comes, the homeland is about to be balls deep in bone bolts.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:33:47 pm by Random_Dragon »
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Random_Dragon

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 03:47:27 am »

So, an update. I've found reason to believe that caravans won't arrive unless the trolls have been modded BEFORE generating the world. A lack of caravans has also meant a lack of migrants, so I'm giving this fort an appropriate finale now that I've explored most of what has to be done to make goblins feasible in fortress mode.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've given our dear friends at the circus 16 goblins, 8 assorted trolls, and 4 captured giant sparrows. First were the wild animals, linked to pop out of cages as we opened the first of 3 drawbridges for the demons to advance into. Next the second drawbridge let them face the trolls, with a pitiful 3 bowgoblins behind fortifcations. All that's left is to see how well 3 miners, 3 woodcutters (lacking axegoblin training), 4 civilians, and 4 children will fare against the horde. At least our archers each took out at least 3 clowns apiece.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Damn, I just paused my game literally as the last goblin was killed, thanks to knockback.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Er...wait what? Odd message, dunno if that's normal or if it's those elves loitering outside my cage traps.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:52:26 pm by Random_Dragon »
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Godlysockpuppet

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Re: Goblin Fortress (modding, possible LP)
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 04:24:38 pm »

This thread should be in modding. Wrong section. Also there's a goblin mod already if you'd rather play it. Don't forget to include access to all the neccesary reactions. Maybe give them similar pet tastes as the dwarves?
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