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Author Topic: Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.  (Read 951 times)

Scoops Novel

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Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« on: April 11, 2013, 11:25:31 am »

Edit: in response to weenog's post, and the fact it was insufficiently explained formerly, i would like to state that I'm after prophecy's, blessings and curses, to as much as try to influence events, to work around the actions of the player and the worlds other inhabitants. I also think that there should be a distinction between background, spontaneous prophecy's, and those created/caused by the inhabitants of the world, or it's heavens, for that matter.

Spontaneous prophecy's should either be within your grasp with some effort and relatively rare, stopped with  cunning or enough dakka, or very powerful, end of the world, god killing events. The latter can be prevented, but only with great difficulty, preparation and judicious study. It should not be locked in, and you'll have plenty of warning. If you want to turn it off, feel free.

As for intentional ones, however, that's where things can be interesting. None would be flawless, but game breakers can run rampant here with heavy investment, if with far more who have not. I'm sure you can imagine how this works, and the people who'd create it.


Prophecy has been brought up before, as has the future of artifacts. We can all think of examples where items and people have, oft ridiculously survived impossible situations, kept on cropping up regardless of security, or  in other ways felt like they were being meddled with by unseen hands. Having such occur, seemingly spontaneously or through the players own actions, could be rather interesting. There's the classic unshakeable, if distant, Ragnarok prophecy, and equally there should be those who can be overcome with little effort. I also suggest, for those who would like to take an axe to the former prophecy, that some prophecy could take precedent over another (if facing no other choice), or face the immovable force vs an unstoppable object conundrum, causing them to cancel each other out. Needless to say, they shouldn't be common, nor uniform. On some worlds the oracles might be the ones giving it power, others possessing flaws or loopholes, some with the possibility of simply being dispelled. You will run into Achilles and the One Ring rarely, but it shouldn't ruin the game and your choices (beyond the obvious :P).

Secondly, this is a fantasy world generator, and an increasingly common and interesting trope is the idea that stories have power. It may not be the one you think it is, but it's there, and the more people care about that story the more power it has and the harder it strives to earth itself and rumble outwards. The Discworld is an excellent example of this, and for the more D&D minded, order of the stick also does it very well. The interesting bit comes in with the question of when reality will take hold or the plot will (try) to writ the script. It also seems like an excellent yardstick for commentary on the players actions. If you act like a bloodthirsty maniac and the narrative shapes itself accordingly, or you have the opportunity to actively exploit this, i could get behind that.  Such a feature would be - comprehensive, but if the prophecy mechanics are implemented, i can easily see this opening up to enthusiastic modders.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:50:16 pm by Novel »
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weenog

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Re: Plot armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 12:09:28 pm »

I think the stories of creatures doing the seemingly impossible are so amazing and treasured because those things are thought to be impossible, or a least incredibly improbable.  Having people turn up as designated heroes (or villains) with plot armor will badly deflate that.  Tholtig was incredible because she was just a dwarf who lost everything, waged a one-woman campaign of genocide in response, and not even old age could slow her down until Armok said "Enough" and called her home.  God Mode Tholtig would just be an uncommon but inevitable thing, (IMO) pretty boring.  "Ho-hum, another randomly invincible NPC was generated near where I want to put my fortress... set out the cage traps."

I do like the idea of the world reacting and reshaping itself to reflect what has been happening in it.  This needn't and shouldn't be story-driven, but instead be a story creation method.  Right now biome distribution seems to be somewhat random.  It would be more interesting, as Toady brings the world to life, for them to be responsive to what is going on there.  Savagery could decline as a player domesticates or tames the savage creatures in the region, on a large scale.  Horrible, damned holes in the ground like Boatmurdered could literally blight the land around them, becoming the epicenters of new Evil regions.  A sand desert could transform into a soily grassland if the ground is fertilized with ash and burnt invaders, and irrigated with water from the caverns (possibly an unintended side effect of one or more megaprojects).
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Plot armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 01:53:33 pm »

I suppose the title is misleading in that regard. I'm not after joker immunity. I was thinking more in terms of artifacts or entities created for a certain task having this much influence on how likely it is to happen. Say you create a nest box emblazoned with the clash of man dwarf and shellfish. It will do it's best to trip the queen into the middle of an awkward conversation ten years from now on the night of the autumn flyby of the local blessed hedgehogmen colony beneath the listening moon. You can burn it, but there may be splinters. A little stronger, and the ash will end up in soap, which is dropped in the sea. A little stronger... it's closer to being blessed or cursed then arbitrary immunity. The idea is that will do it's best to work around whatever you do rather then just "DENIED!". You have a point though, in regards to people it shouldn't just be random. I'll edit the title/original post.

On the other hand, I completely disagree about worlds which work on stories, so long as the stories are both based on and manipulated by the people in that world. Here's a link to what I'm going on about. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 05:40:51 am »

Edit done.
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Neonivek

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Re: Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 05:53:02 am »

I don't know why you don't just make this more of a discussion on a possible fate mechanic that allows things to happen that normally wouldn't.
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DG

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Re: Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 11:23:52 am »

I'm not so sure about plot armour, though I like any fate mechanic or prophecy angle. I made a suggestion a while ago that is along the same lines and have a few examples of how it could work if you're interested. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111667.msg3380562#msg3380562
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aattss

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Re: Plot Armour and other uses of Narritivium.
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 09:42:11 am »

I'm certain that this will be liked by some players (including me). There should probably be different levels of plot armor, and the player should not be the only one with plot armor (it would be fun to try to kill someone with plot armor while you yourself don't have any).