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Author Topic: Tantrum Spirals  (Read 630 times)

Crozarius

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Tantrum Spirals
« on: April 15, 2013, 02:14:06 am »

I had a pretty good fortress going with a large abundance of gold. I had many nice things littered around the fortress and the entire population was Ecstatic according to Dwarf Therapist.

A Goblin ambush appeared pretty close to the gates and 5 dwarves out of the 130 or so didn't make it inside before I had to close the gates and were killed.

Bam, every single dwarf went from Estatic to Very Unhappy due to 5 deaths instantly. Queue tantrum spiral that wrecked the fortress in less than 5 minutes.

How can I prevent stuff like this from happening again?
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zooeyglass

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2013, 02:30:31 am »

How much down time had your dwarves had before the siege? If you give your dwarves free time (and a meeting area), they will socialise - and they take the loss of a friend or family member far worse than the loss of a dwarf they don't know - so restricting socialising is one way to avoid that unhappiness hit.

What are their rooms like? One way of managing the unhappiness hits is by ensuring there are fine foods/drinks/rooms for all your dwarves, so that they'll get positive thoughts as soon as they eat/drink/sleep.
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It is a total pain in the butt, but you gotta do what you gotta do if you want that upright candy weapon.
Your suspicions are nothing more than superstition

Nalbir

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2013, 02:35:09 am »

Try having a side entrance also, only 1 wide and very long, traps on every tile and restrained animals if possible. That way your dwarfs will still have an entrance but early Invaders will give up.
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Crozarius

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2013, 02:37:54 am »

Yeah, I didn't have a lot to do with all the unskilled dwarves in my fortress and a lot of the peasants were chilling in the meeting hall most of the time so they were probably all best buddies or something. As for facilities, the meeting hall was all smoothed up and I had a few gold statues inside. The dining room consisted of 10 solid gold tables with matching solid gold chairs and the walls and floor were smoothed and engraved by my Legendary +5 Engraver.

Another thing that comes to mind: Much earlier, my fortress was still 100% estatic except for a single child who was consistently Very Unhappy. At one stage it threw a tantrum and took off all its clothes and got bad thoughts because of that, then got melancholy and committed suicide. I checked his thoughts several times and it was full of "Has enjoyed eating in a Legendary Dining Room recently, has admired a fine trap recently..." etc. I still have no idea why he was being such a shit.
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zooeyglass

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2013, 03:57:12 am »

Are you sure the child took off their clothes? Did they have any in the first place? Did the clothes wear away? Being naked is a cause of negative thought, so it's possible the child tantrumed because you had no clothes for him/her...

So perhaps you are confusing cause and effect here?
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It is a total pain in the butt, but you gotta do what you gotta do if you want that upright candy weapon.
Your suspicions are nothing more than superstition

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2013, 06:59:04 pm »

Remember that in Dwarf Fortress, unlike many games, clothes are not grown in the womb. Children have to obtain their own clothing after they are born and ideally before they go insane.
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Burnup

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Re: Tantrum Spirals
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 07:28:21 pm »

I've posted a bunch of versions of this, and it just keeps getting longer.. So forgive how long it has gotten, but it has helped quite a few people over the years (The bottom section will probably be the biggest help in this particular case.):

One of my particularly favorite things to do in DF is to have a perfectly scheduled military. I usually have all dwarves in the military (except for a core skeleton crew of eight) And have a series of alerts that swivel my military into action. I also usually have a different alert for every direction the enemy might come. I have alerts from 0 people on duty to all ppl on duty and many stages inbetween.

Normal alert - each squad: 1/3rd train 1/3rd patrol 1/3rd civilian, with only 1/3rd of squad ever being on duty.
Medium alert - each squad: 1/3rd train 1/3rd patrol 1/3rd civilian, with only half of squad ever being on duty.
High alert - each squad: 1/3rd train 1/3rd patrol 1/3rd civilian, with only two members of squad ever being off duty.
High North alert - Northern walls/towers/choke points
High West alert - Western walls/towers/choke points
High South alert - Southern walls/towers/choke points
High East alert - Eastern walls/towers/choke points
All Hands On Deck alert - Everyone, at all times.
Fallback1 alert - First choke falls!
Fallback2 alert - Second choke falls!
Fallback3 alert - Third choke falls!

(Can also be Fallback1 North, Fallback1 West, Fallback1 South, Fallback1 East, etc..)

Civi1 alert - First of the civilian burrows (stay underground!)
Civi2 alert - second of the civilian burrows (Stay out of top two stories!)
Civi3 alert - third of the civilian burrows (Get near the "Final Bastion"!)
Haven Alert - I usually create a way of sectioning off food industry / living quarters into a "Final Bastion" This alert drops all defenses, except for the drawbridges that need to close for the "Final Bastion" to be sectioned off.



You may ask "how do you keep up industries?"
A lot of scheduling.
because of each squad having civi duties 1/3rd of their year. between all the squads cycling throughout the year, Every month is a new "main" industry. The correct industry becoming the "main" Almost immediately when you begin thinking you need it.

MONTH       Squad1       Squad2         Squad3
1                Train!          Patrol!          Civilian!
2                Civilian!        Train!          Patrol!
3                Patrol!         Civilian!         Train!
4               Train!          Patrol!          Civilian!
5                Civilian!        Train!          Patrol!
6               Patrol!         Civilian!         Train!
7               Train!          Patrol!          Civilian!
8                Civilian!        Train!          Patrol!
9               Patrol!         Civilian!         Train!
10               Train!          Patrol!          Civilian!
11                Civilian!        Train!          Patrol!
12               Patrol!         Civilian!         Train!

Keep in mind that for any scheduled order, you need to specify how many units in the squad you want to follow it.
[If you order over the amount of units in the squad to follow an order, then no one will follow it.]

(rigorous trial and error isn't exactly necessary for this. Just have "jobs" be really loose (idle) until you find a need for that person that month [or if you have need of him a different month, then put him in one of the squads that has that month off.]. after a good 2 - 4 in game years everyone should be extremely busy.) (you shouldn't let it get to '0' idle. DON'T GO THERE. But it shouldn't be above 24 idle.[I usually maintain between 4 and 15.])

Ever since I've developed this system and gotten the hang of it, I haven't needed traps at all, I haven't needed danger rooms, nor elaborate defenses, and after I get up to at least 100 dwarves I don't even need gates (except for deadly dust and such..) Infact I have a fort with 250 dwarves, 242 being in the military, whose defensive strategy was built around getting as many people on the surface as possible without cluster %$&@ing. It ended up with 8 different "airlocks" to the surface in strategic positions each with a barracks in it. each barracks having 3 squads. The point was to open all "airlocks" at once. My worst battle losses were 12 deaths ^^ against 10 cave dragons, 10 trolls, 20 goblin spearmen, 10 goblin macemen and 10 goblin archers. (rough estimate) I believe there were 4 enemy leaders.

(because of the airlock positioning I was able to flank almost every enemy grouping effectively, at the correct times.)

One main drawback I've had in this build is when mass producing clothing/armor just to have all 250 dwarves drop their rotting clothing all over the place, leaving it to be cleaned by the poor skeleton crew of eight plus or minus a few off duty soldiers.
(It takes a good amount of time to clean up, plan everything to be gradual.)

You may ask about such a forts happiness level,

A little too much idle time and everyone becomes aquianted, especially if you only have one dinning hall or your dinning halls are close quartered.
Way too much idle time makes them all related. (this has happened to me with a populace of 120.) Great for end game, when tragedy is far and inbetween. But for a fledgling fort.. eh

parties are good.
But I personally keep my people on a rigorous schedule through military training / sentry / patrol duties / industrial direction as to control how many are attending parties and how many are idle at any one time.

I've noticed that happiness is like any resource in this game, Yes you can mass produce and flood yourself with it. But the trick is to create perfectly only what you need. This is what I believe is the essence of efficiency.
I use happiness as a combative measure against tragedy. I've noticed surrounding in general happiness makes them overreact to the bad.

a couple of my policies for example is:

complaining about long patrol duty? double patrol for you for a month! once back into his old schedule he will be happy (relieved).

You didn't enjoy the last slaughter? Have an awesome home for you and your family! And now you are part of a more front line squad!

You lost a loved one? Awesome home for you too!
Lost another loved one? Look, smooth walls in your home!
Another? Look, an engraving on your floor!
Another? What an amazing tomb you have!
etc..

In the end I keep there lives rigorous and barely-joyful unless their mentality is going downhill. everyone who has not been in battle or been effected by tragedy live in slums and are quite content.
Everyone else lives in luxury and are ecstatic about their tragedies. I've had some that enjoy slaughter, so I leave them in slums. Then one day they're pissed about something random, so I move them up. Keep the trump cards for when you need them.

Mass parties are more for if you've lost half your populace to zombies or something, and are trying to reccuperate mentality and populace in one darring swing. But even then, you'd just be trying to avoid a tantrum spiral by buying time for immigrants to arrive and make this depressed bunch of partyers the minority. (Or for vanity, if you think no tragedy can happen. Then by all means, party away)

I find I don't take it upon myself to kill any one of my dwarves. I just have them fight every battle with honor, no traps, no walls. Therefor my population keeps steady, I weed out the weak, and sometimes my veterans go down in a burst of glory like they should. Everyone but a skeleton crew of eight are in the military 2/3rds of the year. (1/3rd training, 1/3rd patrol/sentry 1/3 civilian work) I've taken mass losses, without a single dwarf tantruming. I've had a fortress that lived long enough to see the original embarkment dwarves die of old age, followed by 2 more generations. Still no tantrums. The trick? Keep the trump cards close to your chest for when you need them. No sooner, no later.
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Just tell her that you were merely doing what the voices in your head were telling you to do.