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[PDF urist master]

Elves are unreliable. From a dwarves perspective, considering their society is based around a system where one death, one poor harvest, one strange thought can lead an entire fortress into a cascade of spiralling death, reliability is prized.

Elves ask for things. They negotiate. They even demand things. Sometimes they're your best friend, sometimes they're at war with you. But they also have things we want, so it puts us at a disadvantage. If we want their giant eagles, we have to be nice to them and trade with them. If we want to harvest the timber that is our's by right of occupation, we have to piss them off. Their strange views on wood make changes to dwarven economy that is simply unacceptable sometimes. Their caravans take just as much time and cause just as many problems for a fortress as any seige would, except they actually expect something in return as well as limiting what you can do in the meantime. Therefore, they have our hate. Sometimes they get killed for it. But they made us think about it. Do we want to kill them or not?

Goblins are reliable. They turn up, they fight. Or more accurately, they bring iron with the only negotiation possible being to kill them for it. They might "request" you to set up a fiendishly complex layout of traps, train your military or batten down the hatches, but they don't force you to. It's never a demand if you want their lovely, lovely goblinite. It's always on offer, they never stop bringing it just because you didn't decide to kill the last lot of them. They never tell you that they'll stop trading goblinite because you didn't slaughter enough things last season. And so therefore, they are reliable.

i can see where you're coming from since my fort has a steel industry going on yet no coke to fuel it, forcing me to rely on charcoal. however, goblins aren't the most reliable race either. in a siege, one has time to prepare and collect, but during an ambush, time is limited. they're often too close to the fort for you to defend it, losing you either one livestock, or worse, one adult dwarf. dwarves, to me, are arguably the most precious resource in the game as they're pretty much the only people that you can command. the goblin's ability to deplete this is why i hate them more than elves.

[jaxler]

Elves are unreliable. From a dwarves perspective, considering their society is based around a system where one death, one poor harvest, one strange thought can lead an entire fortress into a cascade of spiralling death, reliability is prized.

Elves ask for things. They negotiate. They even demand things. Sometimes they're your best friend, sometimes they're at war with you. But they also have things we want, so it puts us at a disadvantage. If we want their giant eagles, we have to be nice to them and trade with them. If we want to harvest the timber that is our's by right of occupation, we have to piss them off. Their strange views on wood make changes to dwarven economy that is simply unacceptable sometimes. Their caravans take just as much time and cause just as many problems for a fortress as any seige would, except they actually expect something in return as well as limiting what you can do in the meantime. Therefore, they have our hate. Sometimes they get killed for it. But they made us think about it. Do we want to kill them or not?

Goblins are reliable. They turn up, they fight. Or more accurately, they bring iron with the only negotiation possible being to kill them for it. They might "request" you to set up a fiendishly complex layout of traps, train your military or batten down the hatches, but they don't force you to. It's never a demand if you want their lovely, lovely goblinite. It's always on offer, they never stop bringing it just because you didn't decide to kill the last lot of them. They never tell you that they'll stop trading goblinite because you didn't slaughter enough things last season. And so therefore, they are reliable.

i can see where you're coming from since my fort has a steel industry going on yet no coke to fuel it, forcing me to rely on charcoal. however, goblins aren't the most reliable race either. in a siege, one has time to prepare and collect, but during an ambush, time is limited. they're often too close to the fort for you to defend it, losing you either one livestock, or worse, one adult dwarf. dwarves, to me, are arguably the most precious resource in the game as they're pretty much the only people that you can command. the goblin's ability to deplete this is why i hate them more than elves.

I disagree here. I only care about a few dwarves, them being miners, dwarfs that play a big role in production of a certain industry (AKA that one master stonecrafter, or your legendary armor smith), and then my army dwarves.

If i lose a useless fisher dwarf (AKA Trash hauling dorf...) I don't mind, and just want meh goblinite."