Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[9joseph9]

it would be cool if you could encounter giants that have upward slopes ,can be walked upon ,and are just plain huge. not to sure how it would go about attacking you ,weather a giant group of ascci symbols resembling a hand would speed toward you ,or if it would show up in the log just like any other creature. either way it would be fun to come up to a giant leg and climb you way up to the head and stap it through the eye. itd be like shadow of the collosus dwarf fortress style!

[Avo]

Welcome to our forums Joseph, multi tile creatures are planned. I'm not sure about truely massive creatures but I imagine we're going to see smaller multi cell creatures before we see creatures comprised of dozens of tiles.

[Bumber]

Welcome to our forums Joseph, multi tile creatures are planned. I'm not sure about truely massive creatures but I imagine we're going to see smaller multi cell creatures before we see creatures comprised of dozens of tiles.

I don't think this is the case. From what I've heard they will remain single tiles that will be climbed via wrestling.

Edit: Nevermind. Multi tile creatures are far off, but not out of the realm of possibility.

[Knight Otu]

Toady has talked about multi-tile creatures in the DF Talks mainly - they are kind of a goal, and with functional vehicles being a goal are also likely. Some of the main problems are pathfinding and turning. (quotes in spoiler)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm not ready to do that [determining the size of tiles]; I think there's something to be said for it - something to be said for nailing that down - but it would really kind of invite things like multi-tile creatures and stuff that I'm just not ready to do. There are some good things about multi-tile creatures; I think they'd be kind of cool. But path finding would need to be changed heavily, and there'd be other issues with them. Would they be too easy to kill for example by hiding off somewhere that they can't get to and shooting at them or whatever; so they'd need to be smart enough to avoid situations like that which might be difficult. So that's kind of one of the main problems - the large creatures - why I haven't established a number yet.
...
Capntastic:   Will you be able to climb things in the future, like climb a dragon and punch its brain?
Toady:   There's the issue with ... It's a question of multi-tile creatures partially - which is a difficult problem - but just the fact that there's the wrestling, and even without multi-tile creatures you've got things like groundhogs that can currently jump up and bite your eyes. That's one of the problems I'm having when I was doing my groundhog tests: twenty versus a guy with a knife, who wins? If the groundhog problem is solved, which it needs to be solved - not for this release most likely but at some point - then that means that that same thing will happen to you when you're fighting a giant creature. I think it would be cool to jump up on things, beyond just Shadow of the Colossus it's a common thing in Ray Harryhausen stuff and so on. So with the large creatures I think it'd be really cool to jump up on them and climb them and swing from them and so on. It wouldn't be as dramatic visually of course as Shadow of the Colossus but it certainly would be a lot of fun.
...
Rainseeker:   Maybe talk a little bit about multi-tile stuff.
Toady:   A large issue there is turning; should you only be able to point in four directions, because it's kind of mathematically impossible to have more without breaking the grid system or breaking the relationships between grids and, or changing the number of grids, and you can't do any of those things really safely. Now even if the thing turns four directions it can still more in many more directions by doing kind of an up-up-over, up-up-over, up-up-over thing. So it's not like they'll be completely dissatisfying, it's just if you're trying to navigate a narrow thing that you'd normally be able to navigate, like a narrow channel that you'd normally be able to navigate a boat through but suddenly you have to corner and it's like, turn ninety degrees or whatever, then you might run into issues, or you make all the boats squares or something, I think that'd be pretty ugly though. But as far as covering it on a DF Talk we can always put it up for vote. Next month is taken by adventure mode, but after that it's up to ...
...
it'll be interesting to see if, when we do the multi-tile rewrite, if that gives us further horrible ideas for deadly plants, deadly multi-tile giant trees, because the main problem with multi-tile creatures is the path finding, right? So, if you don't have to worry about the path finding because it's a plant - you know, and assuming it's not a walking plant, which it could be, but ... - if you have a giant multi-tile tree, the giant multi-tile tree can be like a dungeon of death itself by doing evil giant deadly plant things over multiple tiles and stuff so I think that sounds lot of fun, doesn't it ... or you just kind of die, I don't know if that's fun, but that's okay ...

And of course, the "colossus climb" type combat is mentioned on the dev page even with the player as the victim:

Ability to jump up on and ride opponents if they are large enough (can happen to you too of course)
Not being able to hit a giant in the head, hitting a dragon in the head as a reaction when it attempts to bite
Notion of overall wrestling position (who is on top of or controlling whom, etc.)

[CrzyMonkeyNinja]

I can't wait until we can be sieged by goblins riding multi-tile war elephants. That will be a good day. Especially once I have sent out my multi-tile giant desert scorpions to fight them.

[Silverionmox]

I'll leave this here: Gigantic Turtles

To procedurally generate giants from normal creatures, we might want to take into account that they don't scale linearly: they need to get relatively bigger legs to carry the weight and hearts to pump the blood up through that big body, and therefore smaller heads due to the extra demands gravity instills. Exception: creatures living in water enjoy upward pressure from the water - that's the reason why the biggest creatures we know are whales.

[Robosaur]

Or they could just be scaled up 1:1 all around and blame it on magic.

[betaking]

what if "waves" were simulated

like what if, your walls could be smashed down if they were too thin? like a heavy attack on one tile, would reverberate through the other tiles. and stuff.. so like things get knocked down

[fractalman]

I think building destroyers type three (a la can destroy constructions) are planned as a part of revamped sieges at some point. (military arc?).
But if, by waves, you mean walls destroyed a la jerico...*shrugs*. sounds interesting, but that could eat up cpu oh so quickly...

[Neonivek]

Multitile creatures are a "I'd like to do it" feature but not a "I will do it feature" basically.

Basically below a feature but above the Threetoe features in officiality.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Toady's planning it, but it's one of those "eventually" things.

Climbing colossi is an interesting idea, but one that will need to wait for (for instance) a better idea of how wrestling "works," and making creatures' sizes count more (currently a kobold can kick a giant in the head).

[Soadreqm]

From what I hear, multi-tile creature pathfinding is a HUGE ISSUE for some reason. It'll probably be an even huger issue if the creatures also occupy multiple z-levels. This would be really fun to have eventually, though.

[Neonivek]

From what I hear, multi-tile creature pathfinding is a HUGE ISSUE for some reason. It'll probably be an even huger issue if the creatures also occupy multiple z-levels. This would be really fun to have eventually, though.

That is why it isn't a definite feature. Toady wants to do it but he doesn't know how.

[Gargomaxthalus]

Toady's planning it, but it's one of those "eventually" things.

Climbing colossi is an interesting idea, but one that will need to wait for (for instance) a better idea of how wrestling "works," and making creatures' sizes count more (currently a kobold can kick a giant in the head).

As far as scaling creatures goes, all that you need is an abstract version of how you deal with large monsters in Dragons Dogma. The first step is to separate grappling and wrestling. Grappling is a test of strength and wills that consist of a take-down attempt and the associated counter, while wrestling would be what happens on the ground after a successful grapple ie pins, submissions, just intentionally snapping bones and tendons ect. The best example of this is MMA with most grappling being against a cage.

When it actually comes to scaling a giant, the it would run multiple checks: 1. Does the giant simply shrug of the attempt? If yes, then is the would be climber knocked prone? If yes then a horrible death  great fun will likely ensue. 2. Does the attempt succeed? If yes, the climber can spend a step climbing a little higher or launch an attack of an appropriate sort. After 2. the giant gets to attempt a pest extraction operation counter of some some sort with the appropriate results for success/failure. This would continue until either the climber has been removed or the giant is killed. (CAUTION!!) Falling giants have been known to squash/pin those who climbed them and many a hapless passerby. Dwarf bowling anyone?