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Author Topic: Dictionary???  (Read 1966 times)

Particleman

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 10:23:13 pm »

Isn't there at least one language where the shape of an object modifies the verb or something?

I've heard something about how the shape of something is important in the Navaho language, but only in passing.
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Scruffy

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 10:27:38 pm »

Dwarves don't need those words for anything except trading with outsiders anyway. They use their dorf beard telepathy. Links their beards into a hivemind or something like that.
How else did you expect them to receive all those commands?
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GuesssWho

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2013, 12:33:24 am »

LOL
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Baccar Wozat

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 11:04:59 pm »

Bit of a facepalm moment:

Yup, works fine.
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crawlkill

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 11:42:31 am »

Isn't there at least one language where the shape of an object modifies the verb or something?

In Chinese, the -article- (more or less) of a noun is determined by its shape (or by some other concept you have about it). The generic one is "ge," which just means, like, "unit," so we get "yi ge ren," which translates to "a person" but is more literally "a unit of person." The "ge" bit is called a "measure word." You get loads of bizarrely specific measure words, like "yi ben shu," which means "a book" but is literally "a book-shaped thing of book" (or something, I've never encountered another word that takes ben as its measure). A picture is "yi zhang zhaopian," with "zhang" loosely meaning "flat thing." You have one flat thing of picture. It's like grammatical gender gone mad.

And, entertainingly, while they do have plural, they tend not to use it. The Chinese equivalent of adding an S to the end of a word is to append the syllable "men," but I've mostly heard it used when addressing groups of people to acknowledge the inclusivity of the speech. Generally, you just say "two book" (or "two book-shaped thing of book"). And there's no conjugation at all, and a totally bizarre system of tense markers that--

Anyway. You get the picture. There's practically nothing a language -has- to have. I think the linguistics people (whom I do not trust, the ivory tower monoglots that they are) tend to say that all languages have pronouns, and even that's been disputed.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 11:50:06 am by crawlkill »
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GuesssWho

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2013, 01:25:04 pm »

Yeah.

Which is why I find it both depressing and hilarious when people say animals don't have language.
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i2amroy

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2013, 01:27:20 pm »

Yeah.

Which is why I find it both depressing and hilarious when people say animals don't have language.
Animals have a language, but it's missing a large portion of the more complex ideas. I highly doubt dogs or cats have a word for "art" for example, though they might very easily have words/motions for ideas such as "hurt", "attack", or "fear".
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GuesssWho

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2013, 01:34:20 pm »

Only because they've never had to have one before. If you could teach them to paint they might come up with a word for it.

After all, we only have words for things we know about. If aliens ever arrive they'll probably have words for ideas no one human has ever had too.
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Kogan Loloklam

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2013, 03:18:03 pm »

Dolphin words consist of the idea, and as such were beyond our understanding, because human language is literally one-dimensional while theirs are three.

Anyway, I tried using DF Dorf as an applied language. If you figure it's all applied based on word order and sentence structure, words like "Or" aren't needed.
I think I had it prretty well figured out in a usable way, if you find the thread it'd help ya out a bit probably.

Basically though it's {subject noun, (+modifyingnoun)}, {(the situationalnoun) (- +adjective)(- +adjective")} (of referencenoun)

so yea. That. Forgot where I was going with this, so...

Onul!
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Chagen46

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2013, 08:21:58 pm »

Every lingual principle has an exception, language is weird that way.

It doesn't have 'the' or 'of' yet, either.

Articles like "the" are almost entirely non-existent outside of European languages. They're a freakish aberration when you look at the whole world.

Having plurals is not a linguistic principle, more languages don't possess plurals than ones that do.
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Chagen46

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2013, 08:25:46 pm »

Isn't there at least one language where the shape of an object modifies the verb or something?

I've heard something about how the shape of something is important in the Navaho language, but only in passing.

Yup, so sayeth Wikipedia:


Classifier+Stem     Label     Explanation   Examples

-ʼą́   SRO   Solid Roundish Object:   :"bottle, ball, boot, box, etc.

-yį́   LPB   Load, Pack, Burden   backpack, bundle, sack, saddle, etc.

-ł-jool   NCM   Non-Compact Matter   bunch of hair or grass, cloud, fog, etc.

-lá   SFO   Slender Flexible Object   rope, mittens, socks, pile of fried onions, etc.

-tį'   SSO   Slender Stiff Object   arrow, bracelet, skillet, saw, etc.

-ł-tsooz   FFO   Flat Flexible Object   blanket, coat, sack of groceries, etc.

-tłééʼ   MM   Mushy Matter   ice cream, mud, slumped-over drunken person, etc.

-nil   PLO1   Plural Objects 1   eggs, balls, animals, coins, etc.

-jaaʼ   PLO2   Plural Objects 2   marbles, seeds, sugar, bugs, etc.

-ką́   OC   Open Container   glass of milk, spoonful of food, handful of flour, etc.

-ł-tį́   ANO   Animate Object   microbe, person, corpse, doll, etc.

To compare with English, Navajo has no single verb that corresponds to the English word give. In order to say the equivalent of "Give me some hay!", the Navajo verb níłjool (NCM) must be used, while for Give me a cigarette! the verb nítįįh (SSO) must be used. The English verb give is expressed by eleven different verbs in Navajo, depending on the characteristics of the given object.
In addition to defining the physical properties of the object, primary classificatory verb stems also can distinguish between the manner of movement of the object. The stems may then be grouped into three different categories...

handling
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GuesssWho

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2013, 12:05:03 am »

Yikes.
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I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Facekillz058

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Re: Dictionary???
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2013, 06:43:58 am »

I think, instead of having a lengthy conversation, we should just admit that Dwarves communicate effectively and efficiently with eachother, allowing them to accomplish amazing feats.
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