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[Cobbler89]

Do dwarves get a happy thought from seeing a waterfall through a window or glass wall, or only from touching the mist?

For that matter, are there any positive uses of windows as an in-game, not just player aesthetic, matter? Is there anything dwarves can see through windows that's it's generally good for them to see through windows and isn't just useful for a rare exploit like the zombie bacon deal? Can it help in sieges to see beyond your walls? Is there anything that gives happy thoughts when seen through windows?

[Eric Blank]

Dwarves only notice waterfalls when they get drenched in mist, unfortunately.

Windows have one important use: They are transparent as far as NPC AI is concerned, and objects/creatures on the other side of them are visible. You can use windows behind fortifications to allow a unit to view hostile troops (to detect ambushes and such) without the threat of being shot, and without the threat of the window being torn down by a troll or whatever (because it's behind fortifications.) This can also be useful in baiting hostiles into an area; they will attempt to path to a creature they see through fortifications+windows, and you can use that to make them attack a dog or something chained down a side corridor away from your fortress, filled with traps.
To answer your questions more directly; the windows themselves give happy thoughts, but dwarves looking at goblins through windows will still cancel what they're doing and panic.

[nbp]

To answer your questions more directly; the windows themselves give happy thoughts, but dwarves looking at goblins through windows will still cancel what they're doing and panic.

Which itself can be useful, as it allows you to hook up a lever to the door or whatever is between the windowed-in goblin and your dining hall.  Party not breaking up in a reasonable amount of time?  Everyone look at the goblin, and then get back to work.

[Urist Da Vinci]

The stealth detection range is only 3 tiles (a 7x7x7 cube centered on the observer), so you could only see ambushers that were right on the other side of the window+fortification.

[Cobbler89]

Thanks for the info and ideas!

(Re. stealth detection range: so force them to take a path right next to the window. It adds detail to the fortress design, right?)

I'd forgotten the windows themselves give happy thoughts if they really are windows and not just glass walls.

Am I remembering correctly that glass walls cannot be seen through?

[Oaktree]

Alternative to windows behind fortifications (or a ditch) is putting it up a Z-level.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79133.msg2053575#msg2053575

I used to build these at the exits of my tunnels running out and then up to the surface as a way to detect ambushers and snatchers sneaking around.  (My replacement for that is non-grazing animals pastured on grates in the tunnel ceiling.)

[Urist Da Vinci]

...
Am I remembering correctly that glass walls cannot be seen through?

Yes, "XYZ walls" cannot be seen through whereas "XYZ windows" can be seen through. The fact that the material "XYZ" is glass, or another material, is currently irrelevant.

[ivanthe8th]

I expect it has something to do with whatever dwarves use to make the glass resistant to building destroyers. Perhaps they infuse "walls" with beard fibers to increase their strength, but the beard makes it opaque?

[GoombaGeek]

Glass walls are actually made of that clear concrete stuff someone invented. Glass windows are more see-through but are fragile.

[Taugosz]

Windows have one important use: They are transparent as far as NPC AI is concerned, and objects/creatures on the other side of them are visible.

No one explicitly said this yet, Eric came close, but I'd imagine that putting windows on your dwarves' rooms would help reveal the identity of any vampires that enter your fortress, provided a fortress member is walking past the room while an attempted feeding is taking place. This may improve the happiness of your dwarves by boosting their room values, as an alternative to dormitory-style defense.

I can't actually confirm you can use windows in this way, however, as I haven't been graced with any vampiric presences in quite some time.

[Cobbler89]

Ooo, I like that idea, if it works (and I'd expect it to, if windows are seethrough in terms of other things).

Vampire detection, potential increased room value (at least if your gems are more valuable than your engravings you could put on the wall you remove for the window -- anybody got !!science!! on how those compare?), happy thoughts, and a way to use all those too-pretty-to-build-with rocks you dig up... While it doesn't seem as novel and exciting as throwing together waterfalls and giant walls of windows, this may just be one of the most effective in-game use of gems/windows you can come up with.

Of course, I kinda like this whole thread. But then, I like a lot of this forum. It's Bay 12 and the overseers of arm_ok's insane little exilees, after all.

[Drazinononda]

too-pretty-to-build-with rocks

I don't know what you're talking about, I have a fort built with quartzite blocks, cut to exacting specifications by legendary masons. Surely an impressive final sight for any goblins foolish enough to visit... or anyone else who decides to look at it with the sun at their back.

[Starver]

I just thought I'd say that I remember a very early post to a thread on this forum (early insofar as my participation, that is, or perhaps even lurking, might have been back in 23a times) where someone told of how they put a window into the wall of the chasm[1] so that someone (probably a noble) got a good look at a GCS, or something equally interesting, that resided there.

Although I've never really used windows myself, this image (or image-by-proxy) has stuck in my mind.


@Drazinononda: I'm currently making my main entry stockade entirely out of brimstone (taking a while, given its a minority partner in the rock layer I'm finding it in), while accumulating enough marble to make the main block.  Some fortifications will be used, but no windows were going to be...  I might change that, in light of this thread.


[1] A very common feature of pre-cavern worldgens that was essentially a vertical version of what is now a cavern layer, if you don't already know.

[Cobbler89]

too-pretty-to-build-with rocks

I don't know what you're talking about

Gems: can't build with 'em in the game that I know of, but technically they're rocks, and apparently the preferred use is prettying up things.

Not to say the other rocks aren't pretty or whatever. Just not too pretty to build with. Or if that's not the issue I want to know why I can't make a wall out of diamonds -- after all, we've all seen Quietust's signature about the floodgate made of a couple cat bones, so it can't be the feasibility.



ETA: Anyone know if this would work, or can you not remove the floor under windows? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120456.msg3875331#msg3875331