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Author Topic: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.  (Read 2509 times)

Ohlawdy

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My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« on: December 26, 2012, 06:09:54 am »

I have a fascination with medicine and biology (except for botany, screw that). Getting a degree in computer science sounded like a great idea since programming or many other computer centered fields are things I can imagine myself doing for a career.
For several years I have been wanting to go to medical school. I have several doctors (including fresh med school grads) in the family so I try my best to get every opportunity to see the horrors of working in medicine. For some reason my desire to enter the medical field grows. I've also considered Physician Assistant and Nursing. I've been wary of nursing mostly because the diagnosis and problem solving just seem absolutely amazing to me. The care of the patient also greatly interests me, but I feel I might end up unhappy in the long run.

My other career choice which I have only been considering seriously in the past 6 months is getting a computer science degree and probably end up being a code monkey. I've done some hobby programming (nothing useful or even a half-way complete project), and computers in general are intriguing to me. Everything from hardware to software is interesting to me.

Both of these options are looking grimmer to me every week. I'll start with the computer science one. My university would require me to take some higher level math courses for my degree. I also realize that the field will probably include quite a bit of math. This last quarter I failed with a 20% in my pre-calculus class. I went and saw someone and had it confirmed that I have Dyscalculia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia ) which puts me at a severe disadvantage when it comes to math. Getting my degree in CompSci would be incredibly painful and difficult for me. I also refuse to believe that in the tech industry that I will never asked to work with any sort of math (not necessarily solving equations).
Okay, now the problem with going into medicine. I'm a lazy person. Yes, I did try in my math class, it wasn't just me be lazy. What I mean is that I am not a very proactive person in life. It would be difficult for me to go accomplish a 3.7+ gpa while shadowing, volunteering, and trying to get experience in the medical field (CNA, EMT, whatever). I don't necessarily think it is because I am mentally or physically unable to do it, but that I don't have the willpower to do it, nor is my motivation strong enough. Some people say it is because I suffer bouts of clinical depression but I like to believe it is just my personality. I've been working on changing my personality but I know I am going too slow. I managed to somewhat try in my last two years of high school and got a 3.8 GPA (I took math pass/fail) because I decided to stay at least half awake. I've been getting involved with the Pre-Med club at my school and have done some fundraising volunteering for them. I worked at a food stand for one of them which was a terrifying experience considering working with money is similar to flying a plane to me. I've researched some local CNA and EMT courses and am currently saving up money to take one of them. I have been trying to get to know my professors and plant the seeds for future networking. Nevertheless, all of that is just a very small fraction of the willpower and drive I need to get accepted into a medical school. Actually getting through medical school would be the equivalent of developing Star Trek jump drives for me.

There is a third option. I get a bachelors in biology (and probably a masters). From my inexperience, I have been concluding that I would like to work in a lab, the microside of the world is like ecstasy to me. Working in the field would probably drive me insane. I don't want to count frogs or clean rat cages. I want to at least attempt to do something for humanity/people. Both looking at slides and going "Yep, this guy has a high WBC." or "I just spent my entire life manipulating proteins in a fruitless attempt to cure a disease." sounds like a pretty damn good use of my life. However my materialistic side yells at me and makes me worry that I will never have a salary above $40,000 going into research or doing something like being a lab tech in a medical facility.

Through my entire life I have never been pushed or motivated to accomplish anything. Now I am working on changing that but I wish I had started earlier. I've been changing my attitude but it is taking longer than I expected to turn it into habit. My recent failure with my math class, recent diagnosis and the feeling of doors closing around me is destroying my confidence and demotivating me so much that I don't even want to wash the dishes. The one field (biology) that I believe I might have a realistic shot in is hampered my materialism and desire to give my family a comfortable lifestyle. I especially feel the need to support my parents. Our household income has always been less than $30,000 a year and it has been nearly impossible for them to raise me and put anything towards a retirement. My parents are entering their 60's, work physically demanding jobs, and still barely have anything for retirement.

I think the only thing that is really stopping me from giving up and just working a dead end job for the rest of my life is the fact that the shame would probably drive me to suicide within 5 years. Being put on academic probation because of my failure in math is putting me really on edge and it has become hard to function because I am filled with shame and guilt constantly. I'm obviously having a self-defeatist outlook and I know it is idiotic and illogical to have one failure in my life bring these kind of emotions. If only it was simple to just tell your brain: "Hey, stop doing chemical and neuron crap and just be happy. Work harder next time."

Either way, it is late at night so I am going to get some sleep then make an appointment with a professional when I wake up. I just want some advice on dealing with failure and to just stop second guessing every decision for just a moment. Maybe some advice on dropping my materialistic views and just being happy to have a degree and job. I get support from everyone on whatever I choose to do, yet I feel like I am not living up to my own expectations. How can I work on lowering my expectations or better yet, not letting them affect me so negatively. So far the only thing that temporarily makes me feel better is thinking: "Well, I live in the US and am not being killed by horrible diseases, starvation, or war, so things are going pretty good for me."
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Tellemurius

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 10:30:34 am »

If I were you, check to see if a IT degree is available to you, they do beginners level programming but for my school they only require statistics level math to get the degree and you would be still working on a computer.

Eagleon

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 12:28:41 pm »

Contrary to popular belief, most programmers do not use a metric shitton of math. Actually, that's kind of the point of using a computer at all - doing lots of arithmetic calculations to work on problems is tedious at best, sketchy and inaccurate at worst. Particularly in high-level languages with established libraries for it, such as Java, at most you're usually just going to be converting existing formulas to code, and using them as functions. Otherwise, you're dealing with math on the conceptual level, which most people (forgive me if this is not your case) can learn - things like algebra, trigonometry, graphs, and coordinate systems, where you have to understand what's going on, but don't usually have to look at individual operations. Consider talking to the dean in charge of that particular major before discounting it completely - there may be help available to you for portions of the courses that might give you issues, like more fundamental theory that might be given off of the computer in traditional test format.

CompSci isn't the only way to get into programming by far, and it might actually not be what an employer is looking for. 90% of it is useless unless you're designing a CPU. Consider a minor in Computer Programming, or whatever your college calls it, and major in something more interesting to you. In particular, your biology interest might be the perfect opportunity for you to get into systems biology, which is getting much more important as we uncover more about the lifecycle of proteins and 'minor' chemicals in our bodies. There's all sorts of cross-discipline areas a programming background can help with. No one is going to scoff at you for minoring in it, it's all turning towards experimentation in simulation, simply because it's gotten cheaper. It also gives you something to fall back on in case you don't find anything besides lab tech grunt work for a while, particularly if you take the time to pick up and practice in other languages than what your colleges emphasize, like python and PHP.

Whatever you decide to major in, again, clue in the department's instructor as to your disability. Talk with people in the field if they discourage you from it - professors tend to be a little out of the loop as to what is currently required on a regular basis, and software tools for engineers and scientists are popping up faster than most people can keep track of. It doesn't hurt to investigate. I guarantee you, you can find something you'll be happy in, even if you occasionally need to rely on unusual methods to check your work.

Medicine I don't know much about. It seems like we're headed in the direction that a lot of it might start getting some serious upheaval, but you have the opportunity there to work anywhere in the world if need-be. And yeah, med school, from what I understand, is unbelievably stressful and competitive. If you have the drive and interest, see below (edit: oops, had a brain fart and my attention wandered)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 07:43:02 pm by Eagleon »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 12:51:49 pm »

If you have the drive and interest is definitely worth it. People aren't kidding when they say medicine is a "vocational" career. It doesn't have to be a "dream from childhood", you can acquire vocation later, but in either case, you have to really like it. Otherwise you'll burn out before you're through med. school.

And, frankly, if you're as interested as you say you are, it'd be a shame to park it before even trying to get in  :(
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 12:55:15 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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Jimmy

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 06:00:06 am »

First, don't do Pharmacy. Take it from a guy who has one on his wall.

If you're considering medicine, know a few things going into it.

First, you'll be digging a financial hole for yourself that will take far longer to dig out of than taking that crappy 40K job now. Med school is expensive. Bloody expensive. Expect you might have paid it off in your late forties if you're lucky. Remember it's a far longer course than your simple biology stuff. Don't believe me? http://thehappyhospitalist.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/total-debt-cost-of-medical-school-is.html

Second, look at the real work environment now and plan accordingly. Wanna know the real growth areas in the medical field? Actually has nothing to do with patient care. Middle management and bureaucracy are booming. Otherwise, academic medicine is your fallback. Get a cushy position in a university somewhere, pump out a few papers each year exploring the failure of front line medical professionals to meet best practice standards and ca-ching, enjoy your six figure income.

Cynical? Maybe. But in todays environment, realistic.

One last thing: Don't let anyone fool you about the so-called glory of being a doctor.

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LordBucket

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 06:19:18 am »

A few brief thoughts:

severe disadvantage when it comes to math.
I also refuse to believe that in the tech industry that I will never asked to work with any sort of math

If you're coding, yes there's likely to be a lot of math. Though in my experience, an understanding of high school algebra is sufficient to handle most coding problems.

Quote
worry that I will never have a salary above $40,000

$40,000/yr with no debt might be preferable to $60,000 with $50,000 of school debt.

Also...degrees aren't exactly a guarantee of work these days. $38,000/yr with no degree and no school debt is definitely better than getting stuck working at McDonald's with a degree and $50,000 of debt.

Quote
I've researched some local CNA and EMT courses and am
currently saving up money to take one of them.

That might be enough to get work in those fields without a degree. That is, after all, the purpose of those certification courses.

Be aware that as an EMT you're likely to see the occasional corpse and horribly mangled, but still living despite being mangled person. That might be psychologically non-trivial to deal with.

Quote
Our household income has always been less than $30,000 a year and it has
been nearly impossible for them to raise me and put anything towards a retirement.

Remember that finance is not only a matter of money coming in. Money going out has a lot do with it. People making $50,000/yr don't necessarily have more money or more savings than people making $30,000. Very often, they just have better toys.

Also, children are expensive. If you don't have kids, that's a huge expense you won't have.

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just working a dead end job

Life is better if it's fun. I advice choosing a lifestyle that will bring you joy rather than a lifestyle that will bring you dollars.

For example, the guy making 20k on a one-day-on one-day-off schedule at a ski resort, spending all his free time skiing for free and flirting with vacationing ski girls  probably enjoys his life a whole lot more than the guy making 100k spending 10 hours day in an office moving around pieces of paper.

He also probably didn't have to spend 4-6 years putting himself in large amounts of debt to get that ski job.

Quote
I feel I might end up unhappy in the long run.

destroying my confidence and demotivating me

How can I work on lowering my expectations or better yet, not letting them affect me so negatively.

May offer the suggestion that you consider reconciling yourself with your own self before you make decisions that are liable to affect the entire rest of your life?

Decisions made in a state of fear or worry aren't always conducive to results that bring happiness when one is no longer in those states.

Muz

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 11:56:33 am »

I swear I've seen this topic before.

Freaking hell, biology and comp science are proven to be some of the highest paying careers (if you go up to grad level). Both have plenty of demand, and high pay.

Also math is not used in most of computer science, unless you're going really low level.

You could even do BOTH and get a very lucrative career in bio information and stuff. Because that's somewhere a lot of people don't really want to go and a rare skill mix with high demand.

Also screw dyscalculia. I've got that too and I've got an elite degree in engineering too. My parents are dyslexic and both did their graduate studies at Harvard. We're often raised to think that some of the best people are those who are born into the position, but this isn't really the case. Some people are born left handed, but learn to use their right one just as well. True comp sci is designed to be very error proof anyway. And a lot of the more modern stuff relies on calculators. Even trig, algebra, statistics, which are the most likely to be used, won't get miscalculated.

(oh I kinda just glanced over the OP, because it's late at night and my eyes are glazed over, so if I missed anything, correct me)
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Lich180

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 08:10:03 am »

Seems like that's a recurring feeling, OP. My degree (chemical process technology) which I'm about to finish in a few months, probably won't net me a job for 6-12 months, because the economy once again took a nose dive and every company with half a brain is in survival mode. The major companies in the area already aren't hiring a ton, and I can only hope to end up with something good. I spent the last 3 years bursting my ass to get it though, thankfully I will be debt free (GI Bill FTW) but still have the feeling that I wasted my time occasionally. So I know how you feel.

All I know its, medical school you have to WANT to do it, and either have a free ride or be willing to be in debt for decades. Programming I know little about, but if that's what you would enjoy, do it. Talk to the advisors or councillors at your college, and try to look past the $/yr. That's not what happiness depends on, doing what engages you and makes you think everyday is better than anything. Might end up with a crap job for a while, but all that is will be an opportunity to better yourself.

Disability is a dirty word to me. Everything can be overcome (I constantly failed math until I figured out, on my own, that I don't learn abstract math easily, only when I'm actually finding out something useful works,, like solving for x means nothing until I know x is important in some way, like word problems). Still had to retake statistics once, but that was more of an instructor failure than anything.

Anyways, just go talk to a career advisor, councillor at college, etc, and think about what you want to do, not what makes you the most money. Money doesn't buy happiness, after all.
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Jimmy

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 05:38:24 pm »

Also look into scholarship opportunities. While they're rare and usually require you maintain a certain GPA to qualify, they'll offset your debt at the end of your course. If you're not adverse to the idea of military service, there are usually military scholarships that are based on a period of service after you complete your degree. This has the advantage of giving you a job right after you graduate, though you won't have a lot of freedom to choose where it is.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 06:10:45 pm »

Medicine's job opportunities are no worse than in any other field and far better than in many ( out of my high school class I'm the only one with  more or less stable income at the moment). Long-term I'd expect (and expect) needing to move. But like I said, this isn't any worse than any other career choice. So don't get scared into not doing it if you do want to do it
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Meph

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 06:50:38 pm »

Random idea: Go to Europe to study. If you are into medicine, you will save 100.000-200.000 dollars on student fee, if you study on a university here.
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sneakey pete

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 04:11:10 am »

Life is better if it's fun. I advice choosing a lifestyle that will bring you joy rather than a lifestyle that will bring you dollars.

For example, the guy making 20k on a one-day-on one-day-off schedule at a ski resort, spending all his free time skiing for free and flirting with vacationing ski girls  probably enjoys his life a whole lot more than the guy making 100k spending 10 hours day in an office moving around pieces of paper.

He also probably didn't have to spend 4-6 years putting himself in large amounts of debt to get that ski job.

As a guy who spent 5 years putting myself through study* to push paper around for a 5 day working week, i've gotta say i'm having a hell of a lot more fun now than when i was an almost broke uni student with heaps and heaps of spare time...
Not to mention a much better long term and retirement outcome.


*Did have the benefit of government loans that are taken back as part of tax, and living with my parents for cheap living expenses
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Meph

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Re: My career choices are looking quite grim and so much more.
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 02:46:14 am »

Life is better if it's fun. I advice choosing a lifestyle that will bring you joy rather than a lifestyle that will bring you dollars.

For example, the guy making 20k on a one-day-on one-day-off schedule at a ski resort, spending all his free time skiing for free and flirting with vacationing ski girls  probably enjoys his life a whole lot more than the guy making 100k spending 10 hours day in an office moving around pieces of paper.

He also probably didn't have to spend 4-6 years putting himself in large amounts of debt to get that ski job.

As a guy who spent 5 years putting myself through study* to push paper around for a 5 day working week, i've gotta say i'm having a hell of a lot more fun now than when i was an almost broke uni student with heaps and heaps of spare time...
Not to mention a much better long term and retirement outcome.


*Did have the benefit of government loans that are taken back as part of tax, and living with my parents for cheap living expenses

As a guy who spend 6 years traveling around the world, doing whatever he wants, never having pushed paper around for a work week, and in truth: never had a normal work week in this entire life, I have to say that normal jobs and stability and safety are overrated. Of course only my personal perspective.
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