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[UbahNoobah]

Hello all!

So my 2nd fort., after my 1st fort succumbed to a horrible tantrum spiral following a goblin siege, has run about 3 years or so without any major problems. It currently has a population of 120.

So my current problem, which started mid-winter (it is currently late winter) is that many ofmy idle dwarves were thirsty. I checked the wiki and the forums and built a second still (both stillls running constantly) and a few dozen pots/barrels, but now not only has the problem not been solved but it seems like EVERYONE is thirsty. and now nearly everyone is starving despite my food stocks being more than enough to push through winter!

Maybe the summer of last year i started my military and justice system up, with 9 dwarves (with rotation) and about 18 flasks total. There are no food or drink.stockpiles for the 2 jail 'cells'. There are  2 soldiers on guard., 5 training and 2 off duty.

I have:
3 farm fields; 2 underground, 1 above ground
2 stills
82 barrels, (12 of these metal)
41 stone jugs,( maybe half are used by my beekeeping industry)
 40large stone pots

I have lots of food, including prepared meals, several types of fish and wild game parts. There are 2barrels full of wine  but it doesnt make sense that i have 2 full time stills and this problem still persists. There are about a dozen unused barrels in storage and binders barrels upon barrels full of women food..I stared playing regularly about a month ago.
5 dwarves have already died of thirst., a snatcher stole mah babeh and a child killed a full-grown man! Help!

[Mimidormi]

Hello and welcome to the forum !

Seems like you're doing overall a great job, i'm at a loss to explain what could be wrong.

Can your dwarves path to the food stockpiles? Does it says on the description of the food that it is claimed by the military? Did you set up recently any burrow? Did any caravan got slaughtered on your map (their unclaimed food and drinks may count in your stocks)?
How many barrels you have set as reserved on your stockpile menu [p]?

There are 2barrels full of wine  but it doesnt make sense that i have 2 full time stills and this problem still persists.

I may have misunderstood here, but 2 barrels of alcohol for 120 dwarves are basically nothing. What are your brewers doing exactly with the full time stills?

[Lexx]

Sounds like either pathing issues or maybe you just need more of everything. I personally wouldn't feel comfy having less than 300-400 pots/barrels of drink alone. You have to think about long term stockpiles. For whatever reason it sounds like access to your food stockpile might be a problem. Could you post a picture of your farm levels/workshops/dining area?

[Lich180]

Sounds like an access problem to me... Check your ramps, stairs, and burrow assignments to see if they are the cause. (had similar issues myself when I started)

[Findulidas]

How many farmers/brewers do you have? Are they allowed to do other stuff than producing food/brewing?

If you have a fort with 120 dwarves then having 5 dwarves only allowed to transport/produce food/drinks should probably be a minimum. If they are allowed to transport furniture and stuff like that then they are likely to do that time to time, slowing down that absolutely vital produktion.

Also how are the bees producing food? I havent tried them myself, maybe the problem lies in the bees producing loads of small amounts of food which makes the farmers transport that around all the time.

Do you have a kitchen? Are they allowed to make food out of seeds? I remember that being a problem in old forts, cooks actually making food out of the seeds thereby undermining farm production. (I dont use kitchens that often tbh, isnt worth it in my mind)

Also make loads more pots/barrels. Like someone stated before, in a fort where you have 120 dwarves then 400 drinks/food should be a safe minimum. I always try to have four times as much food/drinks as the number of my dwarves. It might well save you if something bad happens. Ex: I once had a dragon setting fire to all of my farms and seeds and drinks, destroying them. Luckily in the food stockpiles there were yet uneaten food which made seeds when it was eaten.

Do you have burrows on the food or farms/stills? I dont use burrows myself because they always seem to create loads more strange and annoying bugs than they solve.

[Findulidas]

Just thought of something else, whats grown on the farms? Not all farms produce edible food, some produce dyes and others need to be cooked first. Always have one active farm only producing those default plump helmets, its not the best food but its enough in any good fort. You can always trade some extra meat/fish/berries/drinks when the caravans come to mix it up.

[Berossus]

How big are those 2 farms?
Are your brewers brewing?
Do you have a bookkeeper? If so, how many units of food/drink are there?

[UbahNoobah]

Wow, thank you everyone for your responses! I'm in a bit of a time crunch right now but I'll try to address every question.

Hello and welcome to the forum !

Seems like you're doing overall a great job, i'm at a loss to explain what could be wrong.

Can your dwarves path to the food stockpiles? Does it says on the description of the food that it is claimed by the military? Did you set up recently any burrow? Did any caravan got slaughtered on your map (their unclaimed food and drinks may count in your stocks)?
How many barrels you have set as reserved on your stockpile menu [p]?
I may have misunderstood here, but 2 barrels of alcohol for 120 dwarves are basically nothing. What are your brewers doing exactly with the full time stills?

My food+drink stockpile is not more than 15 squares from my main meeting area, and removing the door (theoretically keep vermin out?) did nothing.
No most of it is just sitting there.
Yes I set up an emergency burrow for raids and sieges, but right now it's off. The problem stilll existed before I made the burrow.
No caravans have been slaughtered under my guard 
About 50 barrels I believe, and most of the aforementioned pots.
I'm aware that 2 barrels is nothing but I dont see why I have 2 barrels with 2 stills running.

Sounds like either pathing issues or maybe you just need more of everything. I personally wouldn't feel comfy having less than 300-400 pots/barrels of drink alone. You have to think about long term stockpiles. For whatever reason it sounds like access to your food stockpile might be a problem. Could you post a picture of your farm levels/workshops/dining area?

I wish I could but I'm really lacking time right now.
I did have a large stockpile but it seems the brewers(I have 3 qualified brewers, 1 full time) were using the seeds from my nearby farm instead of the harvest at my food stockpile. It killed one of my seed counts and I couldn't seem to fix it through the kitchen menu.

Sounds like an access problem to me... Check your ramps, stairs, and burrow assignments to see if they are the cause. (had similar issues myself when I started)

As stated above my food stockpile is not more than 15 squares from my main meeting area and removing the door did nothing. My burrow includes the entire indoor area so even if it were ghosting they should still be able to get there.

How many farmers/brewers do you have? Are they allowed to do other stuff than producing food/brewing?

If you have a fort with 120 dwarves then having 5 dwarves only allowed to transport/produce food/drinks should probably be a minimum. If they are allowed to transport furniture and stuff like that then they are likely to do that time to time, slowing down that absolutely vital produktion.

Also how are the bees producing food? I havent tried them myself, maybe the problem lies in the bees producing loads of small amounts of food which makes the farmers transport that around all the time.

Do you have a kitchen? Are they allowed to make food out of seeds? I remember that being a problem in old forts, cooks actually making food out of the seeds thereby undermining farm production. (I dont use kitchens that often tbh, isnt worth it in my mind)

Also make loads more pots/barrels. Like someone stated before, in a fort where you have 120 dwarves then 400 drinks/food should be a safe minimum. I always try to have four times as much food/drinks as the number of my dwarves. It might well save you if something bad happens. Ex: I once had a dragon setting fire to all of my farms and seeds and drinks, destroying them. Luckily in the food stockpiles there were yet uneaten food which made seeds when it was eaten.

Do you have burrows on the food or farms/stills? I dont use burrows myself because they always seem to create loads more strange and annoying bugs than they solve.

3 brewers, 1 full time. Estimate of maybe 15 farming-enabled dwarves, 3 full time.

Oh actually most of my dwarves are set to transport food and drink.

The bees produce honey and royal jelly, the latter of which they don't seem to like eating and the former I don't know how to forbid (so I can make mead without the stockpile disappearing suddenly). There's a small amount of each.

The kitchens cannot make food from seeds.

Well you see, the problem with that is I only recently found metal and there aren't enough trees to support a sustained barrel-building labor. Most of my metal is being forged into military equipment as well, since wood is a decidedly unfavorable tool if a dragon shows up.

Yes I do have a burrow on the fields and stockpiles, but the burrow includes the entire indoor area.

Just thought of something else, whats grown on the farms? Not all farms produce edible food, some produce dyes and others need to be cooked first. Always have one active farm only producing those default plump helmets, its not the best food but its enough in any good fort. You can always trade some extra meat/fish/berries/drinks when the caravans come to mix it up.

between my 2 underground fields I have plump helmets running for 2 seasons, cave wheat 1 and sweet pods 1. They are fallow for a total of 4 but, according to my plant stockpile, this seems to work. The above ground field is used for fisher berries, as above ground seeds are hard to come by and I only recently built it in early summer.
The plants( while not a lot) are supported by my fish stockpile , which is currently much larger than my plants. Most if not all of the fish are cleaned and ready.

How big are those 2 farms?
Are your brewers brewing?
Do you have a bookkeeper? If so, how many units of food/drink are there?

I want to say about 6x4 for the underground and 7x7 for the above ground.
Yes.
49 drinks, about 500 food (not including seeds, which I have 1000 of). I read a prior thread on thirsty dwarves and the dwarven wine is a relatively new drink, so getting 'tired' of it shouldnt be an issue.

Also, to all:
I checked the jobs screen and a select few ( ~4, it fluctuates) have the eating job, and about the same amount for Drink.

[Sutremaine]

Open up the caverns by digging through their ceiling and build some wells (you probably have water in the caverns). That'll keep the dwarves ticking over. Don't break into the caverns from the side unless you want a zerg rush to the water's edge.

1. How many brewable food items do you have?
2. How many plump helmets do you have planted right now?
2. Can your dwarves reach the brewables and the still?
3. Is the food behind the door unforbidden, and are the prepared meals and game meat pathable and unforbidden?
4. What are your exact food and drink stores? Check the stocks screen (z, and then it's a tab at the top of the screen). If you don't have a bookkeeper, create one via the nobles screen (n), give them an office and assign it, and set them to High accuracy. That'll allow you to press the Tab button in the stocks screen and examine what and where everything is.

[Minnakht]

Well you see, the problem with that is I only recently found metal and there aren't enough trees to support a sustained barrel-building labor. Most of my metal is being forged into military equipment as well, since wood is a decidedly unfavorable tool if a dragon shows up.

Tell your dwarves to make rock pots at the Craftsdwarf's Workshops. Those hold liquids and food just as well as barrels and you probably do have spare stone.

That frees up your wood for beds and bins.

[SnK-Arcbound]

You have 49 drinks for 120 dwarfs? Dwarfs drink 4 alcohol every season. That's 1440 drinks a year. You need to produce way more alcohol. Also only one dwarf can drink from a pot at a time.

[Imp]

Your problems are interesting.

You mentioned a military - every military dwarf is capable of 'claiming' food, (and maybe drink?).  That food is marked for that dwarf, and only that dwarf, to interact with.  And that dwarf rarely goes back to it - they go for the currently closest food that no one else has claimed.

So that claimed food sits, rotting if it's not in a safe place, and taking up space if is where food gets stored.  That food wont get brewed, moved, or anything - others will starve before they touch it.

I've never seen claimed barrels of drink - but that could be your issue.

You mentioned winter - is it possible that all water sources your dwarves can reach are frozen, leaving them only brewed drink access?

As each barrel or pot lets 1 dwarf drink from it at any time, then regardless of the number of drinks that you see on your screen, I count 'how many dwarves can drink at once' instead.  If you have 12 barrels with brew in them - the rest of your dwarves have to wait.  Each dwarf will randomly try after a period to drink again - if there's a pot finally open for them at that instant, then they go for it (at this point it's marked as claimed by them! - when this happens to food, that food becomes permanently locked to the dwarf in question - maybe the drink [and thus the barrel holding it] is similarly becoming locked to dwarves that are then receiving a higher priority order and are not free to finish their drink and free that barrel?).  If instead every source of liquid is already claimed when a dwarf's attempt to get a drink happens, that dwarf will fail that check and eventually get another chance to tend to their thirst.

There is NO gaurentee that your thirstiest dwarves, who have been waiting the longest, will be the ones to get to drink first once there's a free source to drink from.


The only cure I know of to free up items 'claimed' by a dwarf isto use DFhack's appropriate functions.  Good luck!

[Drazinononda]

I'll assume you're not getting "cancels Brew Drink: needs empty food storage item" since you haven't mentioned it at all, though that's about the only reason I ever have beverage supply issues with setups similar to yours. What level are your brewers? Even with two stills, if you have Novice Brewers working on the drinks, they're going to fall behind.

[esran]

in my fortress of 160 dwarves i have 6 full time stills. not because i need to, but because i have to do something to keep all my dwarves with jobs. my thought is that you have novice brewers working and/or not enough legendary brewers.

[crazysheep]

I've never seen claimed barrels of drink - but that could be your issue.

Military dwarves don't claim barrels of drink - they claim waterskins of drink instead.