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[SquatchHammer]

Well I talked to a lot of people about this and just want to get one more set of opinions and some feedback.

Here it goes... I have no real experience of getting and keeping a girlfriend. I would really love to find someone but at the moment I am doubting that I will. I am 22 male hetero and very much at the point where I feel I should give up on the idea of even finding someone.

I don't know what to add to this at the moment but if you want more info I'll give it the best I can.

I had always felt when I see couples I feel it must be easy to find someone because everyone I know is with someone. I am just the only one around that has no one in that kind of relationship and with that it easily translates into I must be doing something wrong. Or the fact I am not attractive in any way possible to get any attention. Part of my hypothesis is A) that I'm so horribly dumb to the signals that females put out I don't catch on B) or I just think I have no possible way of ever finding love that why even bother.

So you can call me dumb on that but that's how I feel on the matter. I really wish this wasn't the case but right now I feel I am running out of options and I don't want to live a long life alone.

[Trapezohedron]

Get close to someone first?

Uhh... fight your fears, if you have any social ones...?

In what aspect do you exactly need help with?

[SquatchHammer]

Well first I have to find someone to get close first that's one of the major issues. All the times I did that before they said they wouldn't go out with me when I FINALLY got the courage to ask them out. The reason is I'm too much like a brother to them so I basically now have no clue why is that.

[Mono124]

Well first I have to find someone to get close first that's one of the major issues. All the times I did that before they said they wouldn't go out with me when I FINALLY got the courage to ask them out. The reason is I'm too much like a brother to them so I basically now have no clue why is that.

This idea may sound counterproductive, but you are basically getting friend zoned, or rather, brother zoned. Either something is wrong with you physically or mentally that makes you unattractive and the girls are disgusted with you (unlikely though), or more likely, you are doting on their every need for so long trying to get close enough to them to go out with them, that they know they can just say no and still have your undying attention. If you get too close before you go out with someone, they will friend zone you. Period. It happened to me a lot, and I am only with my current girlfriend because I got fed up with it and just asked her out after I barely knew her for a couple weeks, and even then that was pushing it. Don't try to become friends before you go out, become good acquaintances, and don't let rejections bum you. Also, don't try to become friends with all of their friends if you aren't already. That will come with the territory of being their steady.

[kaijyuu]

Okay, no. Please ignore the above post since it's full of shit.

"Friendzoning" is a ridiculous concept perpetrated by manipulative assholes. Many a "nice guy" do this, trying to be nice and everything to gain affection, and get upset when the girl they're trying to woo isn't into them for whatever reason. They mistakingly assume it's because they're a friend, not a lover.

The reality is, if a girl just wants to be friends, that's because she wants to be friends. You are not her type. Period. And assuming you're NOT a manipulative ass, and are actually being nice because that's who you are, you won't get upset over this. You just got a friend; you should be happy. If you ARE a manipulative ass and are being nice solely so you can get in her pants, then fuck you. You don't deserve her.


At the end of the day, all you need to do is be up front about what you want and your intentions. Don't try to "play your cards right." Don't recite pickup lines. Be yourself, communicate what you want, and if she reciprocates, you've got yourself a girlfriend. The more you try to woo her, the deeper a hole you dig. Stop wooing. Stop manipulating. It's not a game, where you can "win." If you're being nice to a girl, it's because you want to be nice to her, not so you can make a good impression or somesuch bullshit. Put yourself out there, and not some mask you wear, and you'll eventually find a girl that's into you, and not some character you pretend to be to try and be more attractive.

[pisskop]

Your taking too long to ask and probably presenting a shy front.  You are getting put into the friend zone.  Especially when they are younger girls feel the need for more proactive partners.  Later on they may realize the best kinds are quiet, hard working and intelligent, but when young they feel that's too boring or not stimulating enough.

Its not about pretending, its about society's (and thus her) expectations.  An outgoing (yet refined) guy who can be funny and casual yet firm and just is America's opinion of a man's man.  You should find a suitable companion  no matter what you do.  But chances are while you play The Platonic Game with a girl you like some other guy who may or may not be of the same quality as you is going to ask her out first.

I remember Tasha...  15yrs old and a boxer.  Badass chick.  I was her 13yr old friend, and I would often fantascize about throwing the cheesy fries we shared on her bed against the wall and passionately making out with her...  When I did ask her out she told be she had agreed to 'date' what turned out to be a drug dealer womanizer.  For the next 3 years, she dated that man, and when she ended it I had moved on...

[alcohol_dependent]

I was in your position and now I have a hot girlfriend.

There are a lot of different approaches to getting girls. You have to decide what it is you want first. Then you have to take a complete 180 turn from where you are now. In order to attract people to you, you have to have attractive qualities. The most important thing above all for you to KNOW right now is this:

There is nothing about you that you were born with that you cannot change with some effort into an extremely attractive and unique quality.

I was tortured growing up and as a teen for being considered unattractive. Nowadays its the complete opposite and my biggest problem is struggling with remaining faithful (a whole 'nother perilous can of worms). I had an intense experience yesterday when my mother showed my gf my school pictures from back when I was made fun of almost every day for being unattractive. She said I was the most attractive person in the class and I can see what she means now.

Of course, its hard to believe that when you haven't gotten any in so long, but TRUST ME. You can turn it around when you magnetize people with your own personal positivity and attractive qualities.

Also, if you are in fact getting friend-zoned, don't listen to anyone that tells you its something you couldn't have avoided.

My gf today says she considered me a friend at first and I know I would have been stuck there if I did not aggressively take steps escalate the level of sexuality in our relationship within a very specific timeline. You can PM me if you want to talk more about things, I can point you in a couple of directions that I think might benefit your problem. But above all just know that it doesn't have to be this way and with a 180 degree effort and some hard work making your life state a more positive one, you can definitely be nabbing girls you thought would forever be out of your league.

[Mono124]

Okay, no. Please ignore the above post since it's full of shit.

What?

"Friendzoning" is a ridiculous concept

At the end of the day, all you need to do is be up front about what you want and your intentions. Don't try to "play your cards right." Don't recite pickup lines. Be yourself, communicate what you want, and if she reciprocates, you've got yourself a girlfriend. The more you try to woo her, the deeper a hole you dig. Stop wooing. Stop manipulating. It's not a game, where you can "win." If you're being nice to a girl, it's because you want to be nice to her, not so you can make a good impression or somesuch bullshit. Put yourself out there, and not some mask you wear, and you'll eventually find a girl that's into you, and not some character you pretend to be to try and be more attractive.

What?... is this not...

The more you try to woo her, the deeper a hole you dig. Stop wooing. Stop manipulating. It's not a game, where you can "win." If you're being nice to a girl, it's because you want to be nice to her, not so you can make a good impression or somesuch bullshit.

WHAT? This is almost exactly what I said and you said I was complete bullshit. What? I didn't talk about manipulating or anything, I was simply saying that if you

...try to woo her, the deeper a hole you dig. Stop wooing.

If you get too close before you go out with someone, they will friend zone you.

Don't try to become friends before you go out, become good acquaintances, and don't let rejections bum you.

When you are nice to a girl, and are yourself, and aren't manipulative or anything, and you eventually make your romantic intentions known and they say you are too good of a friend or like a brother, it is friend zoning. If you are manipulative and you get friend zoned, well that's your own fault, and that's not friend zoning. You weren't yourself. I never said anything about manipulating or anything of that nature. You basically just took my post, ate it, vomited it back up, and said I was full of shit.

The reality is, if a girl just wants to be friends, that's because she wants to be friends. You are not her type. Period. And assuming you're NOT a manipulative ass, and are actually being nice because that's who you are, you won't get upset over this. You just got a friend; you should be happy. If you ARE a manipulative ass and are being nice solely so you can get in her pants, then fuck you. You don't deserve her.

Why shouldn't they be upset if they are just friends? If they went into this with a underlying intention of romantic interest, and ended up falling short of that goal, sure, you gained a friend, but why shouldn't you be disappointing the other person doesn't feel the same? Just because you have romantic interest in someone doesn't mean you are a manipulative ass if you are nice to them. If you actually become romantically involved in them, and become a complete asshole and aren't nice, well THEN you are a manipulative ass.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though you basically feel that:
A) If you are honest about who you are and you later tell them your intentions, and the person you want to be romantically involved in doesn't feel the same, then you should be perfectly happy about your situation.
B) If you are honest about who you are and you later tell them your intentions, and the person you want to be romantically involved in doesn't feel the same, and you aren't perfectly happy about this, you are a manipulative bastard and don't deserve them.

[weenog]

The friend zone is such BS. It's always an excuse for some other problem. Of course people who believe in it get trapped there. They're too busy making excuses to discover the real problem, and solve it if it's a surmountable one.

OP: Quit worrying about getting a girlfriend. Learn to appreciate being alone, and be content with that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're doomed to live a life of solitude. But a man who is not okay with being by himself is not relationship material. You bring an incomplete, needy, weak, damaged quality to the situation, and not many people want to put up with that. Not only that, you most likely project a palpable desperation that other people can pick up on, and rightly avoid. So stop doing that.

You don't need someone else to complete you, learn it and accept it and get comfortable with it. Then just go out and do your own thing. You'll turn people off less if you're genuinely comfortable and confident. If you're doing what you'd be doing anyway, women you meet are likely to share at least one common interest with you.

[Mimidormi]

OP, ask yourself what you truly desire. You crave closeness? An authentic relationship? Someone to be at ease with, someone you can be yourself with? Perhaps there's this one girl you know always in your mind?

From the way you worded your post, it sounds like you are feeling left out from human interactions that look so easy and natural for everybody but you,.. and sorry to be blunt, but that's only an illusion, a painful one at that, but still an illusion.
Don't be ashamed if you want 'just a relationship, any relationship', that doesn't make you shallow, just curious. As long as you and your eventual mate respect each others' will, agency and sense of autonomy.

There is no guidebook, there is no "girl code". We're all human beings, all afraid of rejection and manipulation and loneliness. When people talk about special signals and codes mean conventions that only a handful care about, and will count jack shit when you're truly close to someone.

Gender roles in the heterosexual dating scene in our societies (i take it that you're from a western country, correct me if i'm wrong) puts lots of pressure on males to initiate, hence from male point of view rejection feels like the main problem. From female point of view there's pressure to be the social one in the couple, keep things going no matter what, etc. which is just as crushing, but i digress.

Reaching out is painful at first, especially if you are a fellow introverted, but you'll develop your unique stile suited to you.. only by interacting.
Take baby steps. Go out of your comfort zone at your own pace. You are the only one that can do it and knows how to do it. While it's tempting to follow advices, because you feel that being yourself is right what made you lonely in first place, advices are void and outright dangerous if you don't dissect them first and adapt them to your unique personality. If some approach doesn't feel natural to you, don't force yourself to blurb out things you'd never say on your own. It will only make things worse for everybody.

Consider: you have nothing to lose AND you have nothing to win.
Meet new people. Talk to girls as you would talk to any other human being. Share your interests, share experiences together. They want to have fun just like you, muse about things, enjoy understanding and care.. just like anybody else.

The point of all of this is not just getting to know a possible partner, the point is getting to know -yourself-. Only then you'll be able to face and accept possible rejection and move on. And at that point you'll be to busy enjoying your life to worry about when your time will come, because you will be already living it without realizing.

Oh, and personality TRUMPS good looks. Hard.
It becomes much more evident toward the 30s, i guarantee you.
By personality i mean of course the sincere sharing of one's mind and soul, not that PUA/social engineering bs.

"Friendzoning" is a ridiculous concept perpetrated by manipulative assholes. Many a "nice guy" do this, trying to be nice and everything to gain affection, and get upset when the girl they're trying to woo isn't into them for whatever reason. They mistakingly assume it's because they're a friend, not a lover.

The reality is, if a girl just wants to be friends, that's because she wants to be friends. You are not her type. Period. And assuming you're NOT a manipulative ass, and are actually being nice because that's who you are, you won't get upset over this. You just got a friend; you should be happy. If you ARE a manipulative ass and are being nice solely so you can get in her pants, then fuck you. You don't deserve her.


At the end of the day, all you need to do is be up front about what you want and your intentions. Don't try to "play your cards right." Don't recite pickup lines. Be yourself, communicate what you want, and if she reciprocates, you've got yourself a girlfriend. The more you try to woo her, the deeper a hole you dig. Stop wooing. Stop manipulating. It's not a game, where you can "win." If you're being nice to a girl, it's because you want to be nice to her, not so you can make a good impression or somesuch bullshit. Put yourself out there, and not some mask you wear, and you'll eventually find a girl that's into you, and not some character you pretend to be to try and be more attractive.

This. So much this.

Edit: forgot one thing.

[Trapezohedron]

Amazingly sound advice there.

But do I dissect your advice concerning other peoples' advices and try to add my unique flair to it? Isn't that quite a bit... Inception-riffic?

But seriously, yeah. Good advice.

[King DZA]

I was going to attempt giving some advice, but weenog beat me to pretty much everything I was going to say...

[SquatchHammer]

Just to let people know I'm from the US so just to let you know. Also I noticed something that when I moved between states there is a different mentality in what attracts people. If I'm wrong sorry but that is how it feels. Also I dont do pickup lines. I just don't know how to really break the ice so to speak and it doesn't help that my interests are a bit limited in the area I'm living in at the moment... I.E. Wargaming, pen and paper rpgs, DF (kinda obvious), and other nerdy things.

Personally I would like to learn how to ballroom dance because I watched Dancing with the Stars with my other roommates and thought it was fun and want to be able to dance and not be clumsy. The only problem with that is the area again with the lack of monetary and time to tie it all in. I am looking for anything free but its hard.

[EuchreJack]

I've got the same sort of problem.  My latest plan is to join a gym.  It'll give me a way to meet people and something to talk about.  And even if that all fails, I'll have a better figure and thus be more attractive.  Win-Win!   

If you're still in college, you're lucky.  While in college, you've got tons of options to meet people.  Afterwards, simply running into potential dates becomes an issue.

Also I dont do pickup lines.

That is probably for the best: I think they only work in Liberal Crime Squad.  Although, I've thought up one that I haven't been able to try that might prove effective:
 : "Your voice is so beautiful, I could listen to you talk all night long."
Preferably, the girl would actually have a nice voice and be mildly interesting, so it's somewhat true.

Also I noticed something that when I moved between states there is a different mentality in what attracts people.

It's not just the states.  Simply moving from the city to the country, or from one city to another, and the general public will vary in what is considered attractive.  Or person-to-person: The goal is to attract one girl, not the +100,000 females in the local geographic region.