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[lordcooper]

Except magma.

[ivanthe8th]

At this point it is beating down a dead horse. The message got across, the sinner repents. There is nothing that the entiriety of Bay12 could add to discussion

That's an interesting perspective. I'm not sure what you mean by "the sinner repents". In fact, I would say that if anything Bay12 largely ignored my actual question.

The rightness or wrongness of actually cancelling the wedding has never been a question for me. Likewise, I fully recognized that I had hurt her in deep, possibly irreparable ways long before I made this thread. I may not have completely understood her state of mind, but again that's not actually to the point.

I came to Bay12 hoping to get advice on a particular problem. I'd like to remain on speaking terms with my ex, but her recent actions have made that goal seemingly impossible. My OP outlined a few of the things she's been doing that have made it difficult communicating with her. Ex:

She refused to merely assure me that she was planning on telling me when she would return. She left me in the dark as to whether or not I could expect a phone call or not, let alone when she would actually get back.

Aside from calls to simply cut her out of my life entirely, not one poster has actually suggested any ways for me to take positive action towards my ex. So, in my opinion, there is still an entire discussion left to be had here: the one I originally hoped for.





Now, I can tell that this is clearly a highly polarizing and emotional issue, even for Bay12. So it's possible that the discussion I'd like simply isn't going to happen. But even then, reading all your responses has been extremely informative for me. It's interesting to see how people react to the situation. It's highly unusual for anyone to call off a planned wedding in our society, and people clearly have strong opinions on the matter. That alone is worth me coming back and reading replies.

P.S. For those who post following this. Please try and remember that I knew what I was doing when I called it off. I had the advice and support of several people, including the guys who were supposed to be my groomsmen. I didn't take the idea of calling it off lightly, and I only did it because I felt that it was absolutely necessary.

[King DZA]

You made a mistake colored all different shades of fucked up, I think everyone can agree on that. Just don't spend too much time dwelling on these sorts of things, doesn't help anyone.

It's fine that you want to remain friends. The problem is, trying to do so while the emotional wounds are so fresh has the possibility of making things far worse. Id' seriously recommend giving it some time before trying to spend any more time with each other. She almost certainly feels betrayed, and when someone so close betrays you, mending trust is an incredibly difficult (if not impossible) process, as it feels like they've demonstrated their willingness to turn on you under the right circumstances. Her suspicion is completely understandable.
Having trust that is even close to resembling what it used to in the relationship is going to be slow and painstaking process with no guaranteed level of success, and a high probability of fucking things up even more. So if you aren't totally dedicated to repairing the relationship, it's honesty better to just cut your ties now.

[Solifuge]

Hold up Bay12, many of you are being stupidly accusatory, in ways that are not helpful at all. I know you think you understand the situation, but it's not something you just blame on someone and call it finished. I'll echo the kudos to you, Ivan, for recognizing your feelings and calling things off, rather than going through with the wedding despite them. Would that you both had spoken a lot sooner... but I know far too well how easy it is to silence your misgivings when you see how much someone else loves you.

Anyway, it is what it is, and it could have been worse. She's hurt bad, and you know this. No small part of her future was just torn out from under her, leaving a jumbled mess of emotions and plans behind. She still probably hasn't enumerated all the feelings that are tangled up in her after the wedding was called off, and the accusations, the suspicion, the general negativity coming from her all result from this mess of feelings. Being wronged by someone you love and trust is one of the most painful things imaginable.

What you need to do is talk. You need to ask her to explain how she's feeling in depth, in a fully candid and honest way. Let her know that she can say anything... it doesn't matter if she thinks it sounds stupid, or if she thinks it's obvious... above all, she needs to say what's really got her upset, so she can emotionally move on. This will help her understand her feelings herself, as well as convey them to you. Playing the passive aggressive payback-for-how-you-hurt-her game will not help either of you. You also need to do some thinking about why you called things off, and be ready to explain all your complicated and conflicting feelings to her as well, with an equal level of honesty. Humility and honesty are your best tools in this regard.

If your goal is to stay at least stay on speaking terms in the long run, that's the only way it's going to happen. And you want to do it sooner rather than later.

[Sergius]

Ok, I'm a bit tired of all these "you fucked up" posts, so I'm going to try to give some advice. I'm no expert but there are a few bits of "wisdom" I've figured out of some relationships I have had.

Now, take this with a pound of salt. I could be 100% wrong, any of the stuff I say here is at best anecdotal, and at worst terribly misinformed.

Here it goes:

#1: Lovers aren't friends. Friends aren't lovers. People can be friends, and not lovers. They can be lovers, and not friends. They can be friends and lovers (hopefully if they intend to stay together long).

Sounds like a one-liner (5-sentencer?), so I'll elaborate. When I was dating this girl a few years back, we went out for a few months. She broke with me out of the blue. Then started pestering me on the cellphone and so on, begging to be back together. Then we did, then she broke again. Then pestered me again. Then I threw my phone to the garbage and got a new number.

She said to me "I just wanna be friends." And I felt enlightened. I replied to her "we can't stay friends. Not because of this shit, but because we have never been friends. We weren't friends before we hooked up, and certainly we haven't been together long enough to become friends."

Now, I don't know if that's your case (maybe you knew her long before hooking up?) but I thought I would bring it up. With luck, two lovers will become friends over time, more so if they're going to get married. But don't confuse hanging out with someone because you have romantic feelings, with hanging them because you're buddies. You have (I assume) buddies you hang out to play games, have a beer, do sports, whatever. The activities/interests often aren't the same. Don't get obsessed with the idea that since you've been together, you have to "stay friends". Think of friendship and "lovership" as two separate, but not opposite, number scores

#2: Positive action. Cut that out. Seriously, stop it.

I'm not going to agree with "cut her from your life forever". Just leave her be. If she's actively contacting you is because you expressed interest in that. So yeah, she's going to nag you because you don't contact her despite saying you wanted to. Maybe you said "let's be friends" to spare her feelings or something (most people do) and didn't mean it, or maybe you want to but think it's hard or impossible (for good reason).

She's going to keep doing that until you just tell her to stop (because you kinda started it). So just find a way to tell her that you should just break for good and let things go their "natural way", and if you just happen to stay friends then good. All this "try to stay friends" "positive action" is even destructive. It's not going to end well. Try taking no action at all, and talk her into trying the same (I can't say how, I'm not that good with words, "in a good way" I guess covers it?).

Not saying avoid her like the plague. Maybe your friend circles won't allow that? I don't know. Just stop pretending you're still a couple or buddies or whatever.

Again, I tried to keep this message free of judgements of who was wrong or who fucked what. Definitely, your initial posts show a kind of cluelessness that obviously seem to have angered some posters here. I think you've clarified your issues better on the latter post, so I'm not going to "take sides". I hope my advice is good and not fucked up. Cheers.

[ivanthe8th]

Thanks Sergius and Solifuge, that's more the kind of discussion I've been hoping for.

I'll make a few comments on what you've been saying, hopefully they will help rather than hinder further discussion.

Solifuge
1) We have had one conversation like you talked about. Unfortunately her attitude has made having more conversations difficult. We had one sit-down conversation very much like you suggested, and we made plans to have another. I rechecked my schedule, and found that the next day worked better for me than the one we originally picked. When I asked her to change the date, I was met with accusations that she's "not worth making a special trip".  It's moments like that that have made me so frustrated.

That's an example of passive-aggressive payback like you were talking about. I'm not sure how to prevent them.

Sergius
2) Regarding the "cluelessness". I can appreciate that, I was doing my best in my earlier posts to remain concise. In my efforts to avoid walls of expository text I think I left out too many important details. I hope that my later posts have provided a more useful perspective.

3) We weren't friends before we started dating, so I'm going to give your first comment a lot of thought. It's possible that we can't learn to be "normal" friends, having once been lovers.

4) I can and have been avoiding her for about a week now. After merely trying to reschedule a planned sit-down I got fed up with being treated with that kind of suspicion and just stopped talking with her. Comments like yours (and many others in this thread) are making me think it's not worth trying to get back on speaking terms with her. My best friend, and former best man, agrees with you all and says I should never see her again.

[Zangi]

I must ask, how often have you rescheduled cause it was more convenient for you? 
Mind you, the rescheduling may be more of a hassle on her end?

I wonder because you've given two examples so far...

[kaijyuu]

All I can say is cutting ties early is vastly superior to stringing people along. Everything else aside, if you were unhappy, you made the right choice by calling it off. Not necessarily a "good" choice, but a superior choice.



Anywho my only advice is to not push things. Let her know you want to talk, and take up the opportunity if she wants to talk too. Give her space but make it clear you're open to the idea of patching things up as much as possible.

[ivanthe8th]

I must ask, how often have you rescheduled cause it was more convenient for you? 
Mind you, the rescheduling may be more of a hassle on her end?

I wonder because you've given two examples so far...

It was just the one time, and it was just for 24 hours. My new apartment is a 20 minute drive from the restaurant she selected for us to meet at. The restaurant is just down the road from our old apartment, where she is living. Unless she had plans for the next day, it wouldn't have been particularly inconvenient to change. And if she did have plans, I'd have been flexible.

Also the 2 examples (OP and just now) are actually the same event, told twice.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Seems like my message was missed. Here it is, quoted out.

The question really is, how the hell did you miss every bit of common guy knowledge and communicate with her afterward instead of changing your name and zip code asap?

You can not be friends.
You cannot be friends.
You can't be friends.
Ye canna be friends.
No esta amegia.

You asked bay12. We have given you common guy sense and as a majority said stay away, even if for different reasons. You are playing elf here man. Walk away before you get scienced on, because you don't know what this player is capable of. One thing I doubt this player will do is remain friendly.

I stand by my desire to take out life insurance on you. It really does seem like a pretty good gamble.

But ignore this if you want. After all, the statement of "it isn't possible" isn't exactly a 10 step plan to acomplish your goal. It's not my life on the line so what do I care?

[kaijyuu]

In the end, it's her decision if she wants to keep any sort of friendship going. None of us here know her, at all. We can't say what she'll do. So, claiming it's impossible that some level of trust can be regained is presumptuous about his ex.


There are TWO people here, and BOTH need to want to reciprocate if it's ever going to happen. As I said before, keep an extended hand. It's all you can do. If she grabs it and wants to patch things up, then you can. If she doesn't, you never will. It's entirely up to her, now. There is nothing else to be said.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Sure there is. I can point out that it is easy to take someone to the floor who offer an arm. I can even smile in the same way I smile when I shake a hand.

Offer an arm and you may lose it. Is the friendship with this girl worth the risk? Based on the history I would doubt it, but I'm not him.