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Author Topic: Another fortress lost FPS  (Read 3840 times)

TriggerNaught

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2012, 04:29:21 am »

Posts like this reminds me of my perils! I used to have to work around fps problems. Having lots of items, dwarves, temperature activated will lower it. Flowing water lowers it too so rivers are to be avoided. Sadly all forts will reach that point where you sit waiting for stuff to move! Recently got myself a new pc with i7 processor and since then when playing dwarf fortress I've tested the limits! 200 dwarves, old fortress, larger embark, hell breached and still at 100fps! I suppose that's another option! :D
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Garath

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2012, 05:03:41 am »

I'm doing regular smash runs and my fps seems to be keeping steady at 30 to 50, much better than I expected. I noticed a big difference after killing some caged animals. Even caged, 40 dogs will eat a lot of fps
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 05:05:49 am by Garath »
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
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Tahlin

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2012, 05:17:49 am »

Yeah, upgrading your PC is the best idea.
Ever since I upgraded mine, I can get 200 FPS with 100 dwarves.
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Garath

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 06:55:20 am »

I'm open to suggestions on how to keep my fort running on my current pc with a fps above 20. I'm also open to donations to buy a new computer. I'm not open to suggestions that don't actually solve the problem of A: running DF on an old computer and B: not having the funds to buy a new one

please assume in cases like this that buying a new computer is NOT an option
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Quote from: Urist Imiknorris
Jam a door with its corpse and let all the goblins in. Hey, nobody said it had to be a weapon against your enemies.
Quote from: Frogwarrior
And then everyone melted.

caddybear

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2012, 07:21:44 am »

You could probably squeeze a bit of performance by optimizing your system and getting rid of unnecessary processes and such.
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Xen0n

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 01:17:43 pm »

The major culprits have mostly already been hit upon, and also are mentioned on the wiki:

  • Turn off Temperature / Weather

  • Avoid Flowing Water / Magma

    • Lower Population Cap / Have less pets

    • Limit # of clothing items used (I think Masterwork does this?)

    In addition, since pathfinding is such an FPS hog, fortress layout can help.  The problem is, I'm not exactly sure what layout to suggest, because I'm always hearing conflicting theories on what is good / bad.  Some say big, open spaces with lots of paths is best, while others say the opposite, and restricted controlled corridors are the way to go.  The most recent thing I'm hearing is that it's better to do everything on 1 z-level, and to use ramps instead of stairs.  Take that with a grain of salt, I suppose, because it seems everyone has different ideas on this.

    Also, some rumors and this thread seem to suggest that having many stockpiles is bad for your FPS, as they generate lots of seeking jobs.

    I have good success with sustaining 100FPS with forts up to 120 dwarves over 10 years of in-game time, so I'd like to offer an opinion on the layout or what might be different compared to what I do.

    Wow, nice!  If you don't mind me asking, could I take a look at an uploaded save of one of your forts to see the layout?  I'm always looking to try to see what ways are more FPS efficient.
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vjek

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2012, 01:47:19 pm »

... Wow, nice!  If you don't mind me asking, could I take a look at an uploaded save of one of your forts to see the layout?  I'm always looking to try to see what ways are more FPS efficient.

Sure, I've uploaded one of my recent ones here.

Levels 47 (embark) to 33 (bottom of apartments) is the main area that is always the same.  The other levels vary a bit depending on the purpose of the fort, but that's where the dwarves spend 99% of their time.

It's a primarily vertical design over 13 levels.  Starting at 44 with the stockpiles, then down to the crafting levels, the main dining/living area, then the quarters/rooms.

I should also note, without the volcano breach on that fort, it would be well above 360FPS consistently, with 90 dwarves in it.  I've run the same design with 60, 90, 120, and 160 dwarves with little change in FPS.  Yes, it drops down temporarily if you designate an entire 50x50 area to be engraved, but that's to be expected given the pathfinding requirements.

I've found creating the worldgen to exacting specifications helps tremendously, as does small embark areas.

luppolo

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2012, 02:39:02 pm »

i think i rememer reading somewhere that even atom smashed items stay somewhere in memory leading to FPS fall no matter what (still at a much slower pace than just leaving them around)

also caravans that pass by your fortress leave a "trail" of something in memory due to all the items they're carrying
^^^
somebody did science about it


every single dead crature is kept in memory somewhere as they are all listed in the unit list
^^^
speculation
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Xen0n

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2012, 02:39:38 pm »

... Wow, nice!  If you don't mind me asking, could I take a look at an uploaded save of one of your forts to see the layout?  I'm always looking to try to see what ways are more FPS efficient.

Sure, I've uploaded one of my recent ones here.

Levels 47 (embark) to 33 (bottom of apartments) is the main area that is always the same.  The other levels vary a bit depending on the purpose of the fort, but that's where the dwarves spend 99% of their time.

It's a primarily vertical design over 13 levels.  Starting at 44 with the stockpiles, then down to the crafting levels, the main dining/living area, then the quarters/rooms.

I should also note, without the volcano breach on that fort, it would be well above 360FPS consistently, with 90 dwarves in it.  I've run the same design with 60, 90, 120, and 160 dwarves with little change in FPS.  Yes, it drops down temporarily if you designate an entire 50x50 area to be engraved, but that's to be expected given the pathfinding requirements.

Thanks!  That's very informative.  My current style is very similar; vertical around a central staircase, but a bit more spread out on each level, with the main fort using around 7 or so levels.  I'm on my 3rd year on a new fort, and it's started a sharp turning point from 100FPS to ~40.

I've found creating the worldgen to exacting specifications helps tremendously, as does small embark areas.

I typically use a 4x3 or 3x4 embark area.  As for worldgen, I limit to 2 cavern layers, and basically make the caverns and the spaces between them to be 5 z-levels.  What sort of exacting specifications do you recommend for getting good FPS?
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vjek

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2012, 04:20:17 pm »

... I typically use a 4x3 or 3x4 embark area.  As for worldgen, I limit to 2 cavern layers, and basically make the caverns and the spaces between them to be 5 z-levels.  What sort of exacting specifications do you recommend for getting good FPS?

I should mention, my system specs are very modest by current standards.  I have a core2duo 3ghz with 4GB of DDR1066 RAM.

I'm going to provide some caveats before I provide this information, because I have some very strong bias. :)  My personal style of play is sort of a lazy/efficient combination with a strong dose of rationalization thrown in.  As such, I tend to work backwards from my goal and see how I can refine it.  What is fun for me is very likely not going to be fun for you, or possibly not anyone else.  Just keep that in mind.

In my case, once I discovered goblin sieges, I wanted very much to see the limits of how large a siege I could withstand.  I've used moats, water systems, magma systems, military, no military, cheats, no cheats, evil biomes, good biomes, savage, not savage, surface, and underground forts.

To that end, I started out with a pocket region, and the default raws, and tried to get as many goblin civs as possible.  Turns out, about 5 is the limit.  They won't build dark fortresses too close to each other.  But then I also found that with the default raws, you only get one goblin civ interacting with your fort.  Even if you have 31 distinct goblin civs, by default, you only will ever have one on the civ screen.

So, I changed that.  Added 5 more goblin civs.  Now I have 6 goblin civs to siege me, alright!  progress!  But, there are an awful lot of other things in the world that I really have no interest in.  I typically breached the caverns and then never gave them a second thought, using the soil layers for tree farms and that was that.  But all I was really using the caverns for was wood.  Forgotten beasts kept showing up, and they just roamed around the caverns dusting, burning, and wandering their way to and fro.  Never needed to go down there, so.. really, no point if I could get the wood elsewhere, right?  So, i axed the caverns and gave dwarves above ground farming.

I tend to stick with 65x65 as a max world size now.  Not everything fits into a pocket region, and some aspects of worldgen need a larger set of regions to really tweak properly.  However, very flat and/or small worlds do have one advantage.  Everyone can reach everyone else, so often I can get 2 goblin civs at war of the 6 i have per world, which is great, that means early sieges right away.

Now, without the caverns, there's none of those annoying animal men, just normal animals.  Fewer things pathing around, fewer things to keep track of (for the game engine).  Faster!  I used to play entirely on deserts or badlands, but had to switch to wastelands to get some above ground trees, as there were no belowground trees now.  In addition, I was using an elevation mesh to get mountains in my maps, just enough for dwarves to start on.  Except, you don't really need to do that.  You can make dwarves start anywhere, in any biome.  One line in the raws, and they will happily live on wasteland.  No more mountains.

Ok, so could I get rid of rivers?  Well, in the past, I was always looking for embarks with rivers and a volcano.  Rivers and a volcano.  Always a river and a volcano.  It was like a sickness!  After generating dozens and dozens of worlds, and searching embarks for hours, and building forts on those sites, the efficiency kicked in again.

One command in dfhack provides a riversource tile and permanent water for an entire fort, regardless of biome.  Done.  Buh bye rivers.  How about volcanos?  Most of my forts have a goblin melter in them, and they need an infinite source of magma.  For the moment, dfhack won't create permanent volcanos, so they're an unfortunate reality for those forts.  However, on many of my forts, which are defended by trap hallways, I only need magma for my forges for convenience.  Again, two commands in dfhack, and the forges are magma powered.  I've done it the "right" way, so I just move past that now and do it the fast way.

I tried necromancer sieges, but the way zombies shrug off magma seems broken to me, so, no more necromancers, although their sieges are VASTLY more entertaining than goblins, as they never run away, which is awesome, especially with automated defenses.  I spend no time on the surface, so removing evil clouds, evil rains, and all the rest of that seemed prudent.  I removed mandates from nobles and artifacts, so now my nobles are extremely friendly, never kill anyone, and I make them truly legendary surroundings as a reward for not acting like petulant children. heheh.

Along the way, I removed elves and humans, diplomats and caravans, and creatures I really don't want to fight.  My worlds have very few if any surviving dwarves, one dwarven civilization (usually dead), dozens of thousands of goblins, and some animals.  That's pretty much it.  I want to fight goblins, and I get to fight goblins.   I set my FPS limit to 500, and I am always at it unless I breach a volcano for automated defenses.  After that, the fluid flow is pretty substantial after a siege, but I'm moving 520 7/7 tiles of magma per cycle of the grand goblin melter, so really, the game is doing a damned fine job, in my opinion, fps-wise.

I also figured out how to paint elevation, volcanism, and other features with the "Preset Field Values" part of the advanced worldgen interface.  That was very educational.  I learned about the temperature ranges for worlds, and frostbite and fat-melting, what the consequences are for adding more civilizations, and the difference between sites and civilizations, and what will inhabit a site versus a civ starting point.  Also learned how to add or remove kobolds, or increase the likelihood of massive rivers, cliffs, waterfalls, and similar features.

Recent features like the refuse stockpiles for rotting away armor, clothing, and so on has also been helpful, FPS wise, and has lessened my reliance on atomsmashing or dfhack:autodump-destroy-here.  I routinely build a magma pit for dropping the dozens of kittens that show up for vermin control, and i desperately hope animal traps will be fixed soon so there will be a reason for large jewels and I can stop taking cats on my embarks.  However, I pit or kill all animals except my cats, and keep it to a maximum of 3 adult cats, and 3 kittens.  Once the kittens are grown, I kill the adults and wait until the next set of kittens is ready.  Toady, if you read this, please make vermin gem traps work so I can stop killing kittens.  :P

I want very happy, very rich, very safe dwarves in long term forts, and I get it all.  You can tailor your worlds and the game (with very easy changes) to suit your playstyle, and it should be faster, in the end.

caddybear

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2012, 04:58:51 pm »

Hey, thanks for the write up, Vjek. It's such a great thing about DF that you can tweak these things around to get a game which is what you want to play. Don't mind it if people object the use of DFhack to create magma or rivers, it's a single player game. As long as you don't complain about the game being too easy when you cheat, you're alright in my book.
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Xen0n

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2012, 05:07:16 pm »

Thanks for the enlightening response!  I've slowly been on my way to tailor-making my ever-changing custom world generator to give me just what I'm looking for in a small world without all the fluff.  I'll have to look into multiple goblin civs... I'm just finding out that apparently the one goblin civ near me suddenly became peaceful with me?  No fun :( 

Hmm this "Preset Field Values" seems to be something of a secret!  Only 2 mentions I could find of it on Google, and both of them are people asking what it is and not finding out :P  I assume it's something that lets you draw the terrain you want directly?  May fiddle with that...
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vjek

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2012, 05:41:03 pm »

... Hmm this "Preset Field Values" seems to be something of a secret!  Only 2 mentions I could find of it on Google, and both of them are people asking what it is and not finding out :P  I assume it's something that lets you draw the terrain you want directly?  May fiddle with that...

Yep, the thing that stumps most people in getting started is two main things (I think):

1) you have to use the mouse, and can click on just about anything.
2) what you're changing is constrained by what you defined in the advanced worldgen values. 

If you set your max elevation to 300, you can't use the PFV tool to paint a mountain with an elevation of 301+.  I was thinking about writing up a tutorial on how to make a "smiley face" world with the PFV tool, so the mountains were the eyes and smile of a happy face, while the rest of the world was grassland or swamp or something.

Xen0n

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2012, 10:15:21 pm »

... Hmm this "Preset Field Values" seems to be something of a secret!  Only 2 mentions I could find of it on Google, and both of them are people asking what it is and not finding out :P  I assume it's something that lets you draw the terrain you want directly?  May fiddle with that...

Yep, the thing that stumps most people in getting started is two main things (I think):

1) you have to use the mouse, and can click on just about anything.
2) what you're changing is constrained by what you defined in the advanced worldgen values. 

If you set your max elevation to 300, you can't use the PFV tool to paint a mountain with an elevation of 301+.  I was thinking about writing up a tutorial on how to make a "smiley face" world with the PFV tool, so the mountains were the eyes and smile of a happy face, while the rest of the world was grassland or swamp or something.

Oh cool, that sounds really neat!  I'm already getting ideas on what I'll try to do for my next worldgen... Cliffs galore...
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Another fortress lost FPS
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2012, 12:16:34 am »

Quick FPS question: Do items that were once mobile but have become stationary (e.g., blocks built into walls, or a chair moved out of a stockpile & placed as furniture) still count against your speed?
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