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[cybergon]

With the new hauling improvements it seems to me that sometimes the hauling jobs are even less efficient than they used to be. For example this one time I was making a lot of blocks, the haulers would grab a heavy bin full of blocks from the stockpile and very slowly carry it all the way to the mason's workshop and back to the stockpile with an even heavier load. This problem I believe worsened with metal bins since they're pretty heavy themselves to begin with. Another problem is job cancellations increase; when a dorf goes to a stockpile to use some item but another dorf gets there first and grabs the bin or barrel for collection, it makes the former think that the item has vanished and cancels the job.

I think we wouldn't have this problem if haulers just went for an empty container, grab the stuff they were tasked to, then go back to the stockpile and empty the container inside the one where the stuff is supposed to be going to. On second thought this would then create another problem with too many empty bins taking up space, or not enough, so I don't know what you guys think. Maybe we could have some dedicated haulers in the fort that had a backpack or bag assigned to them, like miners and woodcutters have their respective tools assigned.

I don't know, thoughts?

[Williham]

Actually, this is already implemented.

How aggressively dwarves pack stuff in bins and barrels can be set in d_init.txt. Combined with a suitable layout for your bin stockpile, that should probably allow you to tune their behavior to your liking.

(The relevant setting, I believe, is STORE_DIST_ITEM_DECREASE)

EDIT: It's possible that the behavior needs tweaking on a deeper level as well, for sure, but that might let you at least get a temporary workaround going.

[Niccolo]

Williham, I dont think that's what the OP was getting at. Bins are good - and the fact that a dwarf will use a bin to carry an assload of trinkets from the shop to the pile is awesome - but if I'm reading it correctly the OP doesn't like how dwarves grab a bin that's already half-full (and thus heavier) which just slows them down.

Settings might help a little, but what cybergon is after is something essentially identical to wheelbarrows, but better for lots of smaller objects.

Am I right?

[Entropy]

I've been getting frustrated with this myself - the new hauling has massively increased the hauling jobs.
Instead of a dwarf grabbing a nearby item and taking it to the stockpile, the process is now to run across the map and pick up a heavy bin, slowly haul it to the item, put the item in it, then slowly haul the bin back to the stockpile. What was one quick trip, is now one quick trip plus 2 slow trips for the same job. This has tripled the hauling.

While it is great if there are a lot of items and the dwarf picks up a lightweight container (like grabbing an empty bag for seeds), it is frustrating to see them hauling a heavy bin across the map to collect one rough gem that just got mined out.

If haulers had some kind of satchel (a non-stockpile container) they could carry with them, so that they just get a hauling job and just put it in the satchel, and grab a few more if others are around, before taking it all to the stockpile. This would work for items and food and whatnot, but not for blocks or furniture.

It makes a little logical sense (to me at least), and doesn't triple the hauling.

[Williham]

Williham, I dont think that's what the OP was getting at. Bins are good - and the fact that a dwarf will use a bin to carry an assload of trinkets from the shop to the pile is awesome - but if I'm reading it correctly the OP doesn't like how dwarves grab a bin that's already half-full (and thus heavier) which just slows them down.

Settings might help a little, but what cybergon is after is something essentially identical to wheelbarrows, but better for lots of smaller objects.

Am I right?

As I understand it, it's exactly what he was getting at: Dwarves "see" partially empty bins as closer than completely empty bins, but by toying with the settings in question, you should be able to make them see the empty ones as being sufficiently close, resulting in them using empty bins rather than full ones.

[NW_Kohaku]

I think the problem is more to do with how barrels with seeds in them will be picked up to be taken to the dining hall to pick up one single plump helmet spawn, and in the meantime, that barrel has every single seed in the entire fortress, and it causes all sorts of job cancellation spam from the farmers looking for seeds that are currently being pointlessly carried around the fort.

Having dwarven haulers pick up empty barrels, and then dumping what they have hauled into the already-partly-filled barrels prevents the supply hiccups, but isn't currently supported at all. 

We also need to have dwarves become more intelligent about what jobs require wheelbarrows or barrels or other containers in the first place - you don't even need a container for a single seed, but if you have wheelbarrows enabled in a stockpile, then a dwarf will put a half-full barrel in a wheelbarrow, and cart the whole wheelbarrow down to pick up just one seed - and will go well out of their way to pick up that barrel and wheelbarrow, making the whole trip longer, as well. 

Plus, when all wheelbarrows are in use, dwarves stop hauling altogether - they can't even try to carry a single seed without a wheelbarrow!

All-in-all, they just need to be smarter about recognizing what tasks require a container in the first place, and trying to use small containers that they can empty into partly-used ones to prevent supply hiccups.  (Which is to say, respecting other jobs that use the items in the barrels they are about to pick up, and having a transfer-from-this-barrel-to-that-barrel and temporary barrel use AI routine.)

[Itsdavyjones]

I aggre with kohaku on this one. I have seen my dwarf take the seed bag out of the barrel to get one seed, then go get the barrel to get the bag, if dwarf were smarter they would just take the bag to vacuum the seeds up then bring the bag back instead of getting the barrel to get the bag.