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Author Topic: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress  (Read 3813 times)

Jurph

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Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« on: April 24, 2012, 06:43:21 am »

It looks to me like the Core i3 and Core i5 just crank out a lot more clock cycles; also the A8 is the end of the line for the ill-fated FM1 (aka FML) socket design.  I'm building a new PC and have always used AMD, but I can't see any reason to buy one of their CPUs this time.  I use a Phenom II X3 (2.8 GHz) right now and get 40 FPS on a 3x3 embark with 100 dwarves.  If I don't limit the population to 100, My fort dies from sock poisoning very rapidly above 100 dwarves.

If you own an A8 or a Core i3/i5/i7, can you add to your comments a note with your typical embark size, population limit, and typical framerate at 80 dwarves?  Thanks. 
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MarcAFK

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 07:10:12 am »

My i7 is amazing compared to my old First generation core 2 from 2007, but it seems like overkill having 4 cores/8 threads mostly going unused. At most DF will use 33% of my processor with half that being stonesense. If i had waited for the new generation processor with it's compatibality with newer faster ram i could have gotten higher framerate with a a slower dual core.
Loking back i could have saved a few hundred and bought an i5 and still gotten the same framerate.
I haven't ran a full fortress yet but it's certainly been fun having 300fps at the start of a fortress (it pretty quickly goes down t0 90ish after a few migration waves and with some pumps running)
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

slothen

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 10:03:20 am »

From what I've heard recently around here, the biggest bottleneck for fortress mode and worldgen on a modern desktop is memory performance (speed and latency).  When I built my computer about a year ago I went with AMD, having read they had a better performance/price ratio, and that for most applications (even non-DF), modern multi-core processors were rarely strained by anything but serious cpu benchmarking programs.
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Patchouli

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2012, 11:36:23 am »

From what I've heard recently around here, the biggest bottleneck for fortress mode and worldgen on a modern desktop is memory performance (speed and latency).  When I built my computer about a year ago I went with AMD, having read they had a better performance/price ratio, and that for most applications (even non-DF), modern multi-core processors were rarely strained by anything but serious cpu benchmarking programs.
I don't know what to believe any more. Things keep flip-flopping between the two.
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khearn

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2012, 12:07:42 pm »

My new laptop has a i7-2760QM, and my current fort is 4x4, I have ~105 dwarves, and the fort is about 5 game years old. When I have water flowing in my drowning trap, I'm getting around 80FPS (this is with dozens of goblins & friends running around as well). When water isn't flowing, it's at 100FPS, which is what I've got it capped at. I don't know how high it'd be if I didn't have it capped.

This is on a HP Pavilion dv6t laptop:
  • i7-2670QM (2.2 GHz, 6MB L3 Cache) with Turbo Boost up to 3.1 GHz (I'm typically seeing the resource monitor saying I'm running at ~105% clock)
  • 8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm) (Don't know details like latency or bus clock - I assume it's not blazing fast since it isn't listed as a selling point)
  • 750GB 7200 rpm Hard Drive (probably not a factor at all with 8GB of RAM I doubt I'm paging at all)
  • 2GB AMD Radeon(TM) HD 7690M GDDR5 (also unlikely to be a factor, I have my GPS capped at 30 and am hitting it at all times)
  • Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (has anyone ever considered the effects of the OS on DF performance?)
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qwert

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 03:03:35 pm »

What you want is as much CPU cache as possible, then worry about raw processing speed.
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khearn

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 03:31:06 pm »

I'm not at all sure that CPU cache will have much effect for DF. A cache is only useful if you access the same data often enough that it is still in the cache since the last time you accessed it. If you cycle sequentially through 5MB of data and only have a 4MB cache, the data will keep getting overwritten before you need it again. The biggest CPU caches seem to be 12MB, which is pretty small compared to the amount of data used by DF. I'm not sure one way or the other if any CPU has enough cache for DF to get good use from it.

Do you have data to back up your assertion that CPU cache is important for DF?
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King Mir

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 05:15:51 pm »

I'm not at all sure that CPU cache will have much effect for DF. A cache is only useful if you access the same data often enough that it is still in the cache since the last time you accessed it. If you cycle sequentially through 5MB of data and only have a 4MB cache, the data will keep getting overwritten before you need it again. The biggest CPU caches seem to be 12MB, which is pretty small compared to the amount of data used by DF. I'm not sure one way or the other if any CPU has enough cache for DF to get good use from it.

Do you have data to back up your assertion that CPU cache is important for DF?
Memory latency is surely a larger limmiting factor, but since cache is in the memory hiarchy too, it should have a greator effect than other CPU features, like clock speed, core number, or some CPU benchmark results. Toady does optimize the game, and the number one optimisation is likely to be to duplicated frequently accessed data out of large arrays, into small arrays, and other forms of consolidating data. These optimisations would be most effective with a large cache. When these smaller arrays fit or nearly fit into a cache block, or at least the cache as a whole, they are much more effective. Specifically, the L3 cache or the intel Smart Cache should be the most relevant metric.

High proformance RAM is more important though, and you want to make sure your RAM, motherboard, and CPU support the fastest memory speeds you can find for all 3 (the lowest of the three wins out). And you want the lowest latancy RAM you can find. Be aware though that while it is easy enough to determine which memory the best of a given set, the differences in memory are not very great. If the question comes up whether it's worth spending a little more on memory, or save money and get a cheaper computer, the cheaper computer may well be the better option.

Note: none of this speculation is based on actual testing.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 06:10:27 pm by King Mir »
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MarcAFK

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Re: Intel Core i3 or Core i5 vs AMD A8 for Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 11:21:30 pm »

I was going to wait for the next generation processors since they'll support 50% faster ram, but i'm glad i didn't, 500 fps with your first 7 dwarves is awesome.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.