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Author Topic: Military Silliness  (Read 5434 times)

LumberingOaf

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2012, 03:22:26 pm »

Huh.
I thought the Wiki said they come with a weapon nowadays?

It does. They don't. I've had three minotaurs in the latest version. One unarmed that stepped on a disc trap and died, one unarmed that picked on a yak and died, and one unarmed that wrestled a steel shield from a caravan guard and beat him to death with it, then died. None of them arrived with weapons but the last example definitely suggests they're a lot better when they use them.
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khearn

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2012, 03:24:10 pm »

I've read of someone who did testing in arena mode and found that half a dozen rabbits can consistently kill an elephant. I don't remember who it was, but he/she sounded like they had actually done the test.

On the other hand, I've also read Girlinhat (whom I consider to be a reliable reporter) reporting about having a single legendary soldier take out entire sieges singlehandedly. Come to think of it, ThatAussieGuy also had one or two legendaries in his checkerboard fort who also took out sieges singlehandedly.

So numbers and skills seem to both matter. I suspect in the legendary vs. siege case, the single fighter was able to move about and only engage one or two goblins at a time, since sieges usually appear fairly spread out around the map and seldom arrive at the front door en masse. A skilled fighter with an axe or sword can neutralize an opponent in one or two swings, and keep from getting ganged up on. While the bunnies vs. Jumbo case probably had them all come together at once so the elephant had all the rabbits on him at once.

I remember one fight where numbers beat skill. I had a squad of mounted seigers stuck at the edge of my map because their squad leader was on a flying mount. I sent two legendaries out to get rid of them. One headed straight there, but the second decided a wandering wolf was a grater threat to the fortress and started chasing it. The first guy engaged the goblins, and immediately got knocked down by a voracious cave crawler. Then several goblins would take swings, which he would dodge/block/deflect, then he'd struggle back to his feet, only to be immediately knocked down by the crawler again, repeat ad nauseum. In the mean time, Urist McBadPriorities killed the wolf and started over to help, but then saw another wolf and started after it. This went on for several minutes (and wolves) with the poor dwarf facing the goblins never getting a chance to even take a swing. Eventually one of the goblins got a lucky hit and did damage, which slowed our hero down enough for other hits to start landing, and things went downhill quickly from there. By the time Urist McBadPriorities finally eliminated the wolf threat and got over there, Urist McHero was dead and another squad of dwarves had arrived to deal with the goblins.

The key here was that Urist McHero engaged a group that was bunched together and could all attack him at once, plus the large mounts were able to knock him down every time they tried. He survived a long time solely due to his skills, but was so overwhelmed defending that he was never able to do any attacking.
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LumberingOaf

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2012, 03:36:55 pm »

I remember one fight where numbers beat skill. I had a squad of mounted seigers stuck at the edge of my map because their squad leader was on a flying mount. I sent two legendaries out to get rid of them. One headed straight there, but the second decided a wandering wolf was a grater threat to the fortress and started chasing it. The first guy engaged the goblins, and immediately got knocked down by a voracious cave crawler. Then several goblins would take swings, which he would dodge/block/deflect, then he'd struggle back to his feet, only to be immediately knocked down by the crawler again, repeat ad nauseum. In the mean time, Urist McBadPriorities killed the wolf and started over to help, but then saw another wolf and started after it. This went on for several minutes (and wolves) with the poor dwarf facing the goblins never getting a chance to even take a swing. Eventually one of the goblins got a lucky hit and did damage, which slowed our hero down enough for other hits to start landing, and things went downhill quickly from there. By the time Urist McBadPriorities finally eliminated the wolf threat and got over there, Urist McHero was dead and another squad of dwarves had arrived to deal with the goblins.

The key here was that Urist McHero engaged a group that was bunched together and could all attack him at once, plus the large mounts were able to knock him down every time they tried. He survived a long time solely due to his skills, but was so overwhelmed defending that he was never able to do any attacking.

In fact, this is a case of size beating skill. As you say, the cave crawler was keeping the poor dwarf stuck on the ground and unable to fight back. The fact that the goblins outnumbered him only accelerated his defeat, since a dwarf who can't act *will* die eventually. I had a similar case in which a puking, badly beaten yak turned the tables on a minotaur because it kept charging and left the minotaur no time to fight back. Eventually it landed a lucky hit and after a couple more attacks, a kick in the head killed it. The goblins wouldn't have stood a chance without large creatures to incapacitate your dwarf.
edit:typo
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slayorwrath

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2012, 04:27:21 pm »

The goblin bowmen were the worst of it all, on the plus side, I've got several good quality bows now for free :D, at a loss of around 10-12 Military (not sooo bad) yet in total (apparently) 89 Dwarves. the little buggers really, really wanted to pick up gear at the entrance to the bridge, so the archers just sat at the edge picking them off, I've still gotta build another 30 coffins to keep up with all the corpses around the place. Next time goblins.... Next time!!!!!!!
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rtg593

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 04:38:03 pm »

The goblin bowmen were the worst of it all, on the plus side, I've got several good quality bows now for free :D, at a loss of around 10-12 Military (not sooo bad) yet in total (apparently) 89 Dwarves. the little buggers really, really wanted to pick up gear at the entrance to the bridge, so the archers just sat at the edge picking them off, I've still gotta build another 30 coffins to keep up with all the corpses around the place. Next time goblins.... Next time!!!!!!!

... No, next time, civilian alert burrows :p
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se5a

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 04:48:51 pm »

I seem to keep getting attacked as soon as I let my squads off training for a break (I really need to get that waterfall up and running so as to counter unhappy thoughts from being on duty too long)
going from active to inactive to active again seems to trigger the 'go collect new equipment' sillyness.
last one was a human law giver showing up, who straight away got ambushed by a whole lot of kobolds.
my military didn't get there in time to save him.

and now the humans are at war with me.
any way to get them to like me again?
(I've unfortunately already wasted the first siege they sent)
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khearn

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2012, 05:04:31 pm »

I seem to keep getting attacked as soon as I let my squads off training for a break (I really need to get that waterfall up and running so as to counter unhappy thoughts from being on duty too long)
going from active to inactive to active again seems to trigger the 'go collect new equipment' sillyness.
last one was a human law giver showing up, who straight away got ambushed by a whole lot of kobolds.
my military didn't get there in time to save him.

and now the humans are at war with me.
any way to get them to like me again?
(I've unfortunately already wasted the first siege they sent)

soldiers don't worry about keeping their uniform up to date when they're off duty. Even if you tell them to wear the uniform when off duty, if new armor gets made, they'll wait until they go back on duty to pick it up. So when you need them to do something useful and activate them, that guy in the first squad who is wearing an iron breastplate realizes he should be wearing the new steel breastplate that's in the stockpile. So he rushes off to get it, leaving his old bronze plate behind. Now the guy in second squad who has a bronze breastplate decide he should have the iron one, so he now goes to the stockpile to swap. Now the guy in 3rd squad who has a copper breastplate, and who has already arrived at his post, leaves to go grab the bronze one. This continues down the line until all the gear has worked its way down the priority ranking. One dwarf at a time, one item at a time.

Whenever I change my uniform setup, or even if I've just made a bunch of new armor/weapons, I go to the squad menu and select all my squads, then station them in my weapon/armor stockpile. With all of the soldiers coming on duty, they'll all decide to actually grab the new stuff that is assigned to them. Since they're all going to that stockpile anyway, the time spent swapping things around is minimal, and now they're all carrying what they're supposed to.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2012, 02:02:10 am »

minotaurs are (almost?) always naked and unarmed. that makes them really easy to kill.
Huh.
I thought the Wiki said they come with a weapon nowadays?

This so much. I've had one minatour take a masterwork steel battleaxe from my fortress before, and that made it a near immortal killing construct. Every other time, not so much.

I've read of someone who did testing in arena mode and found that half a dozen rabbits can consistently kill an elephant. I don't remember who it was, but he/she sounded like they had actually done the test.

They can take down the elephant by virtue of grab and shake, but they have trouble killing it for good.

slayorwrath

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2012, 07:05:30 am »

Well I took the advice and played the numbers game, got ambushed again this morning, and with 2 ragtag squads of recruits took out 2 squads of macemen and axemen (each accompanied by a bowman) and drove a 3rd off the map. suffered reasonable casualties, a couple of the goblins managed to avoid the military and snuck into the base, so I've got another 3 goblins for the children to stare at in my zoo, I've got them lining the hall that leads to the dining hall. The kids just love them. lol I think that makes 8 goblins captured now!
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SRD

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2012, 07:08:09 am »

I just make my 79th or something fort today, first siege, just a squad as usual, second siege, two squads all riding jabberers :<
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Mrhappyface

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2012, 07:14:19 am »

As Stalin said, quantity has a quality of its own.
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slayorwrath

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Re: Military Silliness
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2012, 07:20:07 am »

I can't wait to get a week off work to get into this game more, I get 20 mins in the morn, and about an hour at night to get stuck in, on the weekends maybe 4 hours a day if I'm really lucky.... If I get the upcoming OH&S job maybe I can install it on an office pc... tell them I'm using DF for "psychological profiling of safety".... amongst... dwarves?
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