Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Weazal]

=The suggestion!=
is that floodgates can be set to allow a certain amount of liquid through them when open.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbgyppGqBgg&#t=38s shows off an example of the functionality I refer to. (yay Princess Bride!)
Please note: This only limits the depth of the water initially coming through the gate. Should the water have nowhere else to go, it will rise above the level setting of the gate until pressure equalizes.

I think the setting would be best applied at the floodgate itself, in the [q] building settings as 1-7
Default set to 7 so that original functionality applies unless otherwise specified.
The level it's set to will be what it opens to when activated by a lever.

It may be a bit more complicated but perhaps there could be two settings for what it's set to when off or "closed" and what it's set to when on or "open"
Defaults being  off=0 on=7
This way it could have even more functionality.

=Applications!=
-Misters and Waterfalls without risk of overflow or too much splash causing puddles of water for contaminants to dwell in.
-Allowing enough water into a channel for a pump operator to work with but not so much that it will overflow should they arrive to late or leave too early from their pumping duties.
-Cleaning hallways of traps of their debris but not risking as much flood if flow is left unattended.
-Create swim training chambers with safer water depths for unskilled swimmers! (I have no idea how swimming works at any depth so this is just a guess)
-Build life sucking torture machines so that you can... Just Kidding!

=Speculation and unrefined part of the idea=
-Not sure how it would work if the setting is changed while the gate is already open. It'd be nice if it would change on the fly when already open, for simplicity's sake as Player Made systems utilizing the functionality will probably require some fine tuning of different flow levels. But if for whatever reason that doesn't work in the coding, a cycle of opening and closing would suffice.
-Ideally you'd change these settings at the lever as that's where its controls would be at, but since levers can be attached to countless things, it seems like it would complicate things way too much unless the settings would specify which floodgate they were for. Much like how they're listed when one is to be selected for connection to the lever. Being able to alter settings in both locations would be even better. I've always wished levers would list what they're attached to in the event that you forget. I always design my switch rooms so that they're locationally reminders of what they're attached to, so this happens rarely for me.

>Thanks for reading the idea!<
>There are many other things I'd rather see DF add and fix before I'd want to see these added but I still think it's something that'd be welcome in DF.

Thanks again~

[NW_Kohaku]

DF operates by hydrostatic pressure - it doesn't matter if you open up a floodgate one tile tall, when you are opening a passage between a "tank" filled with water 20 tiles high, and another "tank" that is empty up to 20 tiles high, the water will flow into the empty tank until you hit equilibrium.

The only thing you can do with a floodgate that would stop more water from flowing in would be to shut the floodgate before equilibrium had been reached, not only open it halfway. 

The only thing only opening a floodgate halfway would do is cut the rate of flow.

[Weazal]

The only thing only opening a floodgate halfway would do is cut the rate of flow.

That's exactly the point. "Liquid flow regulating floodgates".
The only conclusion I can think you came to is if you thought I wanted to keep the depth of water beyond the gate from ever rising above what the gate was set to. This is not the case. Of course the pressure will equalize on the far side of the gate regardless of what it's set to. The idea is to control the speed of the water, its flow through the gate. I don't expect doing that to change how it acts beyond the speed at which it will do so.

[NW_Kohaku]

That's exactly the point. "Liquid flow regulating floodgates".
I apologize if I somehow inexplicably made that confusing.

The things you were talking about, like controlling water depth, are done not by controlling water flow, but how much water is in the reservoir you open. 

They are also all currently possible without having to add complex context-sensitive information onto a lever that may control multiple objects at the same time.  They just take control of the reservoir size, not the floodgate.

Perhaps you are confused as to what you actually want?

[Weazal]

That's exactly the point. "Liquid flow regulating floodgates".
I apologize if I somehow inexplicably made that confusing.

The things you were talking about, like controlling water depth, are done not by controlling water flow, but how much water is in the reservoir you open. 

They are also all currently possible without having to add complex context-sensitive information onto a lever that may control multiple objects at the same time.  They just take control of the reservoir size, not the floodgate.

Perhaps you are confused as to what you actually want?

That's the thing, I don't want to control water depth at all. I want to regulate flow. Depth will occur regardless of flow regulation should the user ignore closing the gate. I used depth once in the original post for lack of a better word to describe "an amount of water allowed to pass through the flood gate".

Here's a visual example.

[NW_Kohaku]

But the problem with how it would require functionality on levers that are supposed to be able to control multiple types of different objects simultaneously remains.  What happens when I try to tell a door to be 2/7ths open, or a gear to be 2/7ths in place, or a bridge to be 2/7ths up?

Flow is already very slow if you do not have pressurized water (as in, dwarves can easily out-walk a wall of water without pressure), and the best ways of controlling flow are, again, multiple reservoirs and smaller chambers that have pumps to refill them, as you can simply count out the tiles of water and the space you are trying to fill.  (If you want 3 tiles filled up to depth 3 water, for example, you have 3 tiles filled with water in a refillable reservoir, and a door controlled by lever controlling it.  Open the door, and all tiles have 3 depth water.  Close the door, and pump more water back into the reservoir if you need to do it again.)

If the pressure is the problem, there are already ways to cut pressure, as well. 

This is trying to add complex problems to something that already has a solution.

[Weazal]

This is trying to add complex problems to something that already has a solution.

Sounds to me like the opposite.

Multiple reservoirs, smaller chambers, multiple pumps vs a flood gate that has a 1-7 setting via the [q]building menu.

Also, the goal is not filling reservoirs to a certain depth. It's to keep 7/7 water from going over a waterfall and smacking dwarves and getting them soaked. Or leaving water puddles behind for contaminants.

[noodle0117]

This sounds sort of like an old suggestion I made.

Take a look if it's similar
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82915.msg2207735#msg2207735

Also to NW_Kohaku,
No offense, but I have absolutely no idea where you're getting to or what you're trying to say.
edit: Not that your grammar or writing is bad, but I can't seem to link up your posts with Weazal's ideas since Weazal is talking about implementing a new feature for floodgates (or so I understand) while you're trying to discuss about the mechanics of levers and pressure.

[Weazal]

I agree. As far as I can tell, we're sharing the same idea.

I mentioned it to a friend who is a licensed architect and they immediately knew what I was talking about.
Sluice Gates.



They don't necessarily need to be screw-wheel operated like the one in the picture and most are for obvious water hazard reasons, operated remotely. So the traditional DF design of lever linking isn't far off in the least.


I was thinking it might merit creating a new building type. A sluice gate. But after some thought I think it'd be best if the feature just be added to regular floodgates. They are functionally the same in the end.
Though others may feel differently and think it should be a separate building. I'm fine with either way!
Should it be decided that it's a separate building, it could either be built from raw materials like a regular floodgate or from a floodgate or raw material and a mechanism.

[kaenneth]

I think the best way to think of it is as a controllable diagonal gap.

Code: [Select]

########
777#2111
7777#111
########

Currently a diagonal gap allows water to flow, but blocks pressure; so a diagonal gap at the bottom of a large cistern won't instantly flood your fortress.

You could put a floodgate at the point if the '2' in the above diagram, and have a controllable mild flow, or put 3 floodgates on separate switches to have 3 levels of flow from the below configuration.

Code: [Select]

########
777#211#
7777#11#
777#2111
7777#11#
777#211#
########

Being able the achieve this in less space would be nice, but not an essential feature.

[ravaught]

Yes, there are work-arounds for this, but I still think it makes sense and is a useful feature. Technically, it is no more complicated than the weight system used for pressure plates, and is in fact, tremendously simpler. One thing that would make it better is if you were able to link different triggers to different settings.

So:

Lever #1 - Opens gate to 2/7 / Closes Gate
Pressure Plate #1 Opens gate to 7/7 & starts pump >